Trigger thoughts

[DoubleH]

I have put Geissele SSA-E triggers in all of my ARs and it is the best money you can spend! I just bought my 3rd one from Primary Arms with a 15% off coupon, so about $200 OTD. Best investment you can make. And 3.5 pounds is not that light.

 

[Jcon72]

Another vote for the Rock River National Match 2-stage, and I own 2 of them. You can get them on the well-known auction site for about $80, free shipping.
Having said that, I too have been impressed with the M&P Sport's trigger. It's quite usable compared to other mil-spec triggers out there, for sure.

 

[bonegunner]

What auction site for RRA 2 stage at $80

 

[uechikid]

I have the Hipertouch 24 trigger in my AR. I really like it. It's adjustable from 2 to 4 pounds.

HIPERTOUCH® 24 - AR15/10 Fire-Control Drop-In

 

[cprteacher]

I just put in a CMC 3.5# single stage drop-in in my M&P15. It is so much smoother than the stock trigger! I feel the $150 was well spent. I do like hearing about all the different triggers but it boils down to piggy bank and your personal preferences. It could be pricey getting to the right trigger. I tried a relative's AR15s with other triggers before I settled on the CMC.

 

[scooter123]

ARs ain't cheap. Drop $1k on just the rifle, $300 trigger, $600 red dot, $600 for a couple cases of ammo... $2,500 before you even get to the range... and we ain't even talked about mags, sling, stock, grip... and all the other little goodies you end up clicking the buy button on while chatting on the Net and looking through the AR pic thread. Then you want to SBR and get a can... another $1k. Prospective AR buyers ought to plan on Top Ramen and Mac&Cheese dining .

Mac & Cheese, that's too expensive unless you purchase the inedible generic stuff. If you want a top tier AR plan on Ramen for dinner and peanut butter on a slice of bread for lunch. Because they do get expensive.

My choice for a trigger was a Timney drop in and don't regret it at all. BTW, it was billed as a 3 lbs. trigger but tested at 3.5 lbs out of the box on my Lyman Digital Trigger Gage. It was on sale at Midway for 199.95 and IMO it's a good value for the money. Postitives are that the pre-travel is about the same as a S&W revolver in Single Action, meaning you will not feel any creep at all. Installation is also very easy, however one tip for tightening the tiny set screws that clamp the pins in place is to sweep up the spring leg to push it to the side with the hex key so you can insert the key into the screw without any fuss.

As for the trigger being limited to use on a target rifle only, IMO that statement is just plain foolish. The simple fact is that a trigger doesn't pull itself no matter what the weight is. So, keep that finger OFF the trigger until you have acquired a legitimate target and that rifle isn't going to fire even if you get tripped by a gopher hole and do the most memorable belly flop in recorded history.

 

[blueridgeman]

Lotsa choices

As you can see there are a lot of choices, most of them are probably very good choices.
I put a Geisele SSA-E trigger in my M&P-15 and really like it.
It's a 2 stage trigger: about 2.5 lbs of take up, then about another pound of crisp clean break.because it's 2 stage, you're not likely to trip the sear by just brushing your finger against the trigger.
Installation is a breeze, and no I don't work for those guys....just letting you know my experience.

 

[schgsd]

ARs ain't cheap. Drop $1k on just the rifle, $300 trigger, $600 red dot, $600 for a couple cases of ammo... $2,500 before you even get to the range... and we ain't even talked about mags, sling, stock, grip... and all the other little goodies you end up clicking the buy button on while chatting on the Net and looking through the AR pic thread. Then you want to SBR and get a can... another $1k. Prospective AR buyers ought to plan on Top Ramen and Mac&Cheese dining .

OMG What have I got into. I suppose I'm lucky as my buy in to the fun was a used M&P15 Gunbroker auction in my hands for $650 after FFL and shipping. I'll try telling the wife I saved so much it should pay for the trigger.

I'd be interested how it turns out if you do it. We've all spent a LOT of money on this hobby. And that is what it is right now - just a hobby. So many vices and so little time LOL.

Oh I'll be posting for sure.

I really expect I will stay somewhere around 4 to 4.5 lbs. My 9mm auto is a 4 lb trigger. If I had that on my M&P15 I figure I'll be quite happy.

 

[AGoyette]

I cheated. I bought an AR that already had an Geissele trigger installed stock. It is a single stage and breaks around 4-4.5 lbs. I love it.

 

[LeadSpitter]

A little googlin and I see more than one post on the net saying the M&P15 trigger is roughly 9lb pull. Would that be reasonably accurate?

I've owned my M&P15 for about 9 months. Long enough apparently to have learned my shooting will likely improve with a better trigger.

The drop in trigger replacement path seems a good road to follow. For your money you get a known entity tested and verified by the maker. No variables introduced by a self install of an aftermarket parts package.

One I like has options in 4.5 lb 4.0 lb and 3.0 lb. But I'm not seeing any but the 3lb option for sale.

I'm concerned 3.0 lbs is just weeeee bit light.

I hope this helps.

I, like you, wanted a better trigger. And I didn't need it for target or practice shooting and therefore, DID NOT WANT ANYTHING LIGHTER THEN 4lbs or thereabouts.

And I don't know about your cash situation, but I didn't want to and could not afford to spend this much to get and try this trigger, then not like it, spend more and try that trigger. etc., etc., etc..

So, what I did was to simply research the internet and read what people were saying. In the end, for me, the one name that kept coming up for my needs was Geissele. And if you are patient, you too, if you decide to go with a Geissele, can find it for a deal. I say that because I picked one up from Palmetto State Armory for $206. And included with the trigger, and price, was one of their LPK's (Lower Parts Kit). Below, you can check and see what, if anything, they're offering at this time?

Search results for: 'Geiissele trigger'

If you're not patient, or still feel that's too much or you don't have that much to spend, take a look at Rock River Arms Match 2 stage trigger ($120.00). Or, Spikes battle trigger ($59.95)

Spikes battle trigger...Lower Parts - Spike's Battle Trigger [SLA01BT] - $59.95 : Spikes Tactical


Rock River Match 2 stage trigger...Rock River Arms: Match Two Stage Trigger

Any a one of those three will be and is better then any stock AR trigger. But if you told me or if I had to pick just one, it would be the Geissele. In fact, I see from Geissele, the 2-stage is only $165...Geissele 2 Stage (G2S) Trigger

Another option would be an ALG Defense ACT (Advanced Combat Trigger) Advanced Combat Trigger (ACT)trigger...
Advanced Combat Trigger (ACT)

In the mean-time, just take you're trigger out and polish, with Flitz, any areas that meet. Do it by hand a little at a time. Apply Flitz, use a clean cotton rag to rub it on/in, then buff it off, again, by hand, with a clean cotton cloth. Do it maybe 2 times then put it back and try it. If it needs more, do it again. But the best fix is an after-market trigger. Whatever you do..... DON'T take a file or more importantly, don't take a Dremel to it. lol

As I said, I hope this helps???

 

[sixshooter_45]

Wilson Combat TTU 4lb

I've also have a Wilson Combat TTU 4lb single.

Best money I ever spent on my rifle.

+1, Same trigger on mine and best upgrade on my AR-15.

 

[WR Moore]

I don't remember the exact mil-spec for AR triggers. It runs about 5.5-8lbs or 5-8 lbs. The upper number might actually be 8.5 lbs. As others have noted, weight is less an issue than quality of the pull.

Depending upon your usage, you may want to stay in the lower range of the weights noted above. All military grade weapons tend toward robust trigger pulls because of the rough handling and high stress involved in their usage. [fingers do seem to acquire triggers under stress] Semi-auto firearms also need heavier triggers than manually operated versions. I'd be very leery of any AR trigger under 4 lbs. Based upon comments from trainers who see a wide variety of firearms in heavy use, I'd avoid triggers that allow you to adjust things by means of screws. The vibration of the operating cycle can loosen things and cause issues. In a range toy, annoyance. In other usage, much more serious.

I will note that if the current trigger is crisp, you can learn to deal with the weight. The key is to learn to pre-load the trigger so that all you have left is about 3 lbs to complete the trigger squeeze.

Good luck.

 

[Huch]

How much money are you looking to spend? That will help direct your search. The next question is if you want a 2 stage or a single stage trigger.
This video has a lot of great info and can help you decide what kind of trigger you want: [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypb5HXdDJhc[/ame]

I will also say that I am a big advocate of flat/straight triggers. They feel a lot better to me and I can shoot them faster and more precisely than the curved ones. I'd try one out if you can and see if you dig it before you go with a traditional curved trigger.

The cheapest route you can go is just get a set of yellow JP Precision springs for $10 or so. They'll drop a few pounds off your trigger weight but won't improve the grittiness/creep.

Next cheapest is probably an ALG Defense QMS trigger for $45-60. Same pull weight as factory but much crisper/cleaner. ALG is Geissele's sister company (owned/run by his wife) and they make high quality stuff at affordable prices. You can also add with the JP springs to this trigger to drop the weight.

CMC makes great drop-in triggers. I have their 3.5# Flat trigger in my competition AR and love it. Very fast and clean and you can find them for about $175.

Geissele has a very well deserved reputation for making fantastic triggers that are very durable and reliable, but they're on the pricey side (about $225 + or - depending on the trigger). I have an SSA and an SDC (same trigger but with a flat trigger shoe) and like them both a lot. If you're going to get a Geissele, you should know that 2 of their triggers have more affordable versions that lack some little finishing touches (i.e. laser engraving) but are functionally the same. The Geissele 2 Stage is the same as the SSA but $60 cheaper and the Geissele Rapid Fire is the same as their Super 3Gun trigger but $60 cheaper.

Hope that helps!

 

[ABurress]

I just got a Velocity trigger @ 3# for 3-gun and shooting out to 300 yards. I doesn't feel to light at all. YMMV

I have just installed a Velocity 3# drop in trigger it really improved my accuracy with my Bushmaster. I was concerned about it being too light but I agree it is not nearly as light as I had feared. Awesome value @ $135.00 compared to the $200.00 up triggers imho.

 

[rcsiv]

Excellent review on Velocity Triggers. Bob
Gear Review: Velocity Triggers Drop-In AR-15 Trigger - The Truth About Guns

 

[Bowserb]

The OP didn't mention his AR uses and objectives other than the obvious wanting it to be better. The U.S. military has done pretty well (politicians' interference notwithstanding) with that terrible stock gritty trigger, for about 50 years. The used M-16 issued to me in Vietnam in 1967 (not even an A1, had the open front flash suppressor) did not have, as I recall, a gritty trigger. So maybe with 30,000 rounds or so, they smooth out on their own?

The do it yourself trigger smoothing procedure works, I'm told by many people, so it may be essentially the short cut to 30,000 trigger cycles. At least one manufacturer suggests that procedure to smooth out the trigger, so it beats me why the mfrs can't spend an extra 10 minutes per AR and do that at the factory. Seems like a company who did that would get a reputation for good triggers and get more sales...but then gun companies are famous for bad management, and being penny wise and pound foolish is consistent with short-sighted top management. Live for this quarter's EPS!

Light triggers. Handgun or AR. If you accidentally, or in self defense, shoot someone with your light-trigger gun, be prepared for a prosecutor or plaintiff's lawyer to use that in court to prove you are a dangerous gun nut. "He installed a hair trigger on his gun to be sure he could kill fast and easily, without any regard for the safety of innocent bystanders." Read enough of Massad Ayoob's stuff and you'll think twice about light triggers.

I'm a hobbyist, not a competition shooter. I have handguns for personal defense and fun shooting. I have a 20-gauge also for home defense, and because my wife likes shotguns but not the recoil of a 12 gauge. And I have an AR, because I wondered how I would shoot the modern version of the one I had 48 years ago.

I'm not a gunsmith, or even mechanically adept outside of a computer box, so if I bought a trigger I'd have to pay for it to be installed. Then I'd have, I guess, a better hobby AR. For the same money, though, I could also buy another gun I've been curious about--either a Ruger LC9s or a Hi-Point carbine. That would give me a pocket carry/backup gun or another fun gun for the range. In hobby terms, either of those would be a better value than a trigger job--for me at least. I mean, who doesn't want another gun?

 

[Kadonny]

The OP didn't mention his AR uses and objectives other than the obvious wanting it to be better. The U.S. military has done pretty well (politicians' interference notwithstanding) with that terrible stock gritty trigger, for about 50 years. The used M-16 issued to me in Vietnam in 1967 (not even an A1, had the open front flash suppressor) did not have, as I recall, a gritty trigger. So maybe with 30,000 rounds or so, they smooth out on their own?

The do it yourself trigger smoothing procedure works, I'm told by many people, so it may be essentially the short cut to 30,000 trigger cycles. At least one manufacturer suggests that procedure to smooth out the trigger, so it beats me why the mfrs can't spend an extra 10 minutes per AR and do that at the factory. Seems like a company who did that would get a reputation for good triggers and get more sales...but then gun companies are famous for bad management, and being penny wise and pound foolish is consistent with short-sighted top management. Live for this quarter's EPS!

Light triggers. Handgun or AR. If you accidentally, or in self defense, shoot someone with your light-trigger gun, be prepared for a prosecutor or plaintiff's lawyer to use that in court to prove you are a dangerous gun nut. "He installed a hair trigger on his gun to be sure he could kill fast and easily, without any regard for the safety of innocent bystanders." Read enough of Massad Ayoob's stuff and you'll think twice about light triggers.

I'm a hobbyist, not a competition shooter. I have handguns for personal defense and fun shooting. I have a 20-gauge also for home defense, and because my wife likes shotguns but not the recoil of a 12 gauge. And I have an AR, because I wondered how I would shoot the modern version of the one I had 48 years ago.

I'm not a gunsmith, or even mechanically adept outside of a computer box, so if I bought a trigger I'd have to pay for it to be installed. Then I'd have, I guess, a better hobby AR. For the same money, though, I could also buy another gun I've been curious about--either a Ruger LC9s or a Hi-Point carbine. That would give me a pocket carry/backup gun or another fun gun for the range. In hobby terms, either of those would be a better value than a trigger job--for me at least. I mean, who doesn't want another gun?

When dealing with any AR, again you have to look at intended use. For a SD or SHTF gun, the stock millspec trigger may be the best for various reasons. But for a range or competition gun the trigger is key, so a swap can make a lot of sense if you want to shoot it really accurately.

 

[thetexan1400]

S&W M&P 15

ARs ain't cheap. Drop $1k on just the rifle, $300 trigger, $600 red dot, $600 for a couple cases of ammo... $2,500 before you even get to the range... and we ain't even talked about mags, sling, stock, grip... and all the other little goodies you end up clicking the buy button on while chatting on the Net and looking through the AR pic thread. Then you want to SBR and get a can... another $1k. Prospective AR buyers ought to plan on Top Ramen and Mac&Cheese dining .

Yeah, and you forgot to mention the $650 for a Sig to $800 for others silencers legal in many states and the 2nd or third gen scopes! Almost as bad as owning a Harley--lol!!!

The only question is where do we draw the line on the "sock drawer?" lol I am considering the trigger for my M&P, but then what about the other three Bushmasters? The AKs? (Even have a scope on one of them)

I think I will revamp 2 rifles and be done with it. After all, can't shoot more than one at a time. Or at least, I have not reached that proficiency yet--lol

 

[thetexan1400]

The OP didn't mention his AR uses and objectives other than the obvious wanting it to be better. The U.S. military has done pretty well (politicians' interference notwithstanding) with that terrible stock gritty trigger, for about 50 years. The used M-16 issued to me in Vietnam in 1967 (not even an A1, had the open front flash suppressor) did not have, as I recall, a gritty trigger. So maybe with 30,000 rounds or so, they smooth out on their own?

The do it yourself trigger smoothing procedure works, I'm told by many people, so it may be essentially the short cut to 30,000 trigger cycles. At least one manufacturer suggests that procedure to smooth out the trigger, so it beats me why the mfrs can't spend an extra 10 minutes per AR and do that at the factory. Seems like a company who did that would get a reputation for good triggers and get more sales...but then gun companies are famous for bad management, and being penny wise and pound foolish is consistent with short-sighted top management. Live for this quarter's EPS!

Light triggers. Handgun or AR. If you accidentally, or in self defense, shoot someone with your light-trigger gun, be prepared for a prosecutor or plaintiff's lawyer to use that in court to prove you are a dangerous gun nut. "He installed a hair trigger on his gun to be sure he could kill fast and easily, without any regard for the safety of innocent bystanders." Read enough of Massad Ayoob's stuff and you'll think twice about light triggers.

I'm a hobbyist, not a competition shooter. I have handguns for personal defense and fun shooting. I have a 20-gauge also for home defense, and because my wife likes shotguns but not the recoil of a 12 gauge. And I have an AR, because I wondered how I would shoot the modern version of the one I had 48 years ago.

Bill, Some very good points!
Yeah, the good ole' days when rumor was the A-1 & A-2 bodies were made by Mattel. Was not quite the same results hitting someone with the stock of a 16 compared to the wood of a 14.

Serving in our court system as an expert witness for two decades I agree with how a prosecutor would come back on the hair trigger thing!

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

The only question is where do we draw the line on the "sock drawer?" )

I hear ya.... BUT....

For those who shoot much, the cost of the rifle becomes relatively insignificant. That's why I don't see much use in not buying the trigger you want regardless if its an extra hundred bucks over a second or third choice. Heck, you'll probably be sending that many $$$ or more down range each time you go to the range. Shame to send so many $$$ down range with a trigger that isn't the one you wanted most.