Triple Lock Serial #

papabyrd

papabyrd

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I have a Triple lock 455 that i got from my friend at the pawn shop.He got it from a police sale in a lot of 100 guns he had bid on.I said all that to ask this would the serial number be stamped under the side plate of this gun or is it an assembly number? I ask this because the serial number on the bottom of the grip and under the cylinder yoke have been ground off and re stamped.I looked under the side plate and the number under there is the same as the number stamped on the grip frame . I am thinking this gun had a life of crime or was stolen and the serial number was ground off and the police dept. found the number under the side plate and re stamped it on the frame.
What do you think ? It has been changed to 45 colt also . Check out the bone grips and there are no military marks on it at all. there is a small B-F under the grip next to the grip pin.
 

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Bone Grips

Thank you, The grips were the first thing that i saw when i saw her for the first time. I don't know how long they have been on her but they are old bone. She is a great shooter but you have to be careful she has a very light trigger.
 

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7651 is not the serial number - It's an assembly number. The correct SN should, in addition to being on the butt, also be stamped inside the extractor rod recess under the barrel and on the rear face of the chamber. Is anything there?
 
Without saying too much, just the notation to be very careful concerning the implications of an "altered, defaced or obliterated" serial number particularly on a cartridge handgun even of its vintage. Be sure to have a proper receipt from a fully identified and licensed seller. Just a suggestion and...
My take.
 
It appears someone stamped the same number on the bottom of the grip frame and the yoke recess under the barrel; the font size and style are not factory for the gun's time. Agree with DWalt's questions and iskra's advice.
 
The serial# can also be found on the rear of the cylinder crane. Open the cylinder and rotate the chambers until you can look thru the chamber and see the number. A flashlight helps.
 
Even though the butt numeral stamping may have been performed many years ago, it does bring the legality of the revolver into question. Under GCA-68, any defacement or removal of the original serial number is prohibited. And the only legal SN for a S&W is the one on the butt. While the probability of getting into trouble under this statute may be miniscule, it is definitely not zero. At best, anyone knowing the law would refuse to buy it from you. I know that I would.
 
I agree with what DWalt said, and I am frequently posting about the legal status of guns with obliterated numbers. Even though it appears in the correct location, and is a possible serial number for a .455 triplelock, it is not the factory applied number.
HOWEVER IN THIS CASE - When your friend bought the guns, he probably received an inventory list. Get a copy. If you have a problem, show that a police department sold the gun and they said this is the serial number. They couldn't be wrong, could they?

Bob
 
OK thanks guys we now have a serial number. Thanks to your knowledge.
I found the number on the back of the crane and the back of the star both are the same 12902. thanks very much for your help. I want to try to get a letter on it and see where she started out. As for the paper work i always keep that and i have no though of selling it. thank you all very much again !
 
papabyrd said:
OK thanks guys we now have a serial number. Thanks to your knowledge.
I found the number on the back of the crane and the back of the star both are the same 12902. thanks very much for your help. I want to try to get a letter on it and see where she started out. As for the paper work i always keep that and i have no though of selling it. thank you all very much again !
Click to expand...

Since it is a commercial .455 in the 12K range I can almost guarantee that is shipped on 12/29/1917 to Shapleigh Hardware.I just saved you $50 :)

Any way you can post a picture of the back of the Cylinder(the side you load from)? I would like to see if it was converted to .45LC in the same manner as my Gun(Recessed cylinder).
 
If the same SN is not visible on the rear face of the cylinder, it would indicate that the rear face has been shaved to provide enough headspace for the thicker .45 Colt rim. The rim counterbore method of rechambering would leave the cylinder's stamped SN intact.
 
Were the SNs ever re-struck on a shaved cylinder?

Chris
 
The back of the cylinder has been cut off to make room for the rim no counter sink. and it was not re blued .Thanks again for all your help. Stan
 
papabyrd said:
I ask this because the serial number on the bottom of the grip and under the cylinder yoke have been ground off and re stamped.
Click to expand...

Hi Stan,

The # 7651 assembly # on the frame in the 'yoke cut' was not filed off and restamped. That's the originl factory stamping and the # that should be there to match the sideplate #. Do you see the 3rd location of the assembly # 7651 stamped on the yoke opposite the frame #7651? The factory # font will match as well. These hidden #s were not stamped neatly like the factory serial #s on the butt.

The serial # 12902 should also be in the extractor shroud under the barrel.

Looks like your good to go, no worries. Nice shooter converted to something much easier to find, and probably at a real good price. Stick to 45 Colt standard loadings; that cyl was not heat treated.

Enjoy,
 
Thanks for the info Jim . There is no number in the extractor shroud under the barrel but it doesn't look like there ever was . The blue is good there.
I don't shoot hot loads they make my bird finger sore from the trigger guard hitting it but i do love the 45 long Colt.
Also thanks to 05CarbonDRZ for the shipping and hardware store info. What state is Shapleigh Hardware in ?
 
papabyrd said:
Thanks for the info Jim . There is no number in the extractor shroud under the barrel but it doesn't look like there ever was . The blue is good there.
I don't shoot hot loads they make my bird finger sore from the trigger guard hitting it but i do love the 45 long Colt.
Also thanks to 05CarbonDRZ for the shipping and hardware store info. What state is Shapleigh Hardware in ?
Click to expand...

St. Louis. Shapleigh was a large hardware distributor, and was in business for many years. I think they ceased to exist over 50 years ago.
 
papabyrd said:
Thanks for the info Jim . There is no number in the extractor shroud under the barrel but it doesn't look like there ever was . The blue is good there.
I don't shoot hot loads they make my bird finger sore from the trigger guard hitting it but i do love the 45 long Colt.
Also thanks to 05CarbonDRZ for the shipping and hardware store info. What state is Shapleigh Hardware in ?
Click to expand...

I'm very surprised that there's no serial # on the barrel. But I've learned not to say always or never.

I hate getting rapped by the trigger guard as well. Those service stock shaped grips are famous for it. I have different stocks for when I shoot mine now:

orig.jpg
 
I occasionally shoot a .38 DA top-braek, and even with the puny .38 S&W cartridge, it is painful to get your fingers hit by the trigger guard in recoil with the standard black rubber stocks on it. I put some oversize combat wood stocks for a J-frame on it, and while it looks strange, it makes a world of difference.
 
Last edited:
Back in the day, there were several large hardware distributors whose bread and butter business was distributing merchandise to local hardware stores around the USA. In addition to Shapleigh, there was Belknap (Louisville) and Hibbard, Spencer, Bartlett (Chicago), among others. They often sold various products under house-brand names, and also distributed a large variety of firearms and ammunition. With the advent of the Big Box stores, such as Home Depot and Lowe's, being an independent local hardware store not a particularly good business to be in at present, but some still hang in there as part of national chains, such as Ace and Tru-Value. Few carry guns, but some still do.
 
Hondo44 said:
The # 7651 assembly # on the frame in the 'yoke cut' was not filed off and restamped. That's the originl factory stamping and the # that should be there to match the sideplate #.
Click to expand...
Actually, "they" did grind the assembly number off. The grinder marks are visible. The restamped number was made with larger number stamps that are also a different font.


papabyrd said:
There is no number in the extractor shroud under the barrel but it doesn't look like there ever was . The blue is good there.
Click to expand...
I'll bet it is there and you are missing it.
Triple Lock barrel numbers are tiny, AND they are in the tiny little recess for the ejector rod knob at the very front of the shroud. Since there are 5 digits, you know they must be small. Oil, rust, dirt, and gunk will hide them.
 
DWalt said:
Even though the butt numeral stamping may have been performed many years ago, it does bring the legality of the revolver into question. Under GCA-68, any defacement or removal of the original serial number is prohibited. And the only legal SN for a S&W is the one on the butt. While the probability of getting into trouble under this statute may be miniscule, it is definitely not zero. At best, anyone knowing the law would refuse to buy it from you. I know that I would.
Click to expand...


I was under the impression that guns before 1968 can have a re-stamped serial number as long as it was done pre 68. Isn't this true per the gun control act of that time??

Which in turn makes that Revolver 100% legal?? Due to its age??

Experts please?

Lee I think we have discussed this on the past, but do not remember our final conclusion
 
OK there is a ground place where the ejector rod knob rest .I did not think they would put it in that small of a place.
 
jjbrewst1 said:
I was under the impression that guns before 1968 can have a re-stamped serial number as long as it was done pre 68. Isn't this true per the gun control act of that time??

Which in turn makes that Revolver 100% legal?? Due to its age??

Experts please?

Lee I think we have discussed this on the past, but do not remember our final conclusion
Click to expand...

I don't think so. This is the full and exact text from 18 USC Chapter 44, Paragraph 922 (Illegal Acts):

(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

There are no exceptions to this passage stated in the act for post-1898 firearms. "Any firearm" means any firearm (as defined in GCA-68). Unless BATFE has issued later advisory guidance concerning enforcement of the contents of GCA-68 regarding pre-1968 firearms, I think the wording of the statute is clear.
 
DWalt said:
I don't think so. This is the full and exact text from 18 USC Chapter 44, Paragraph 922 (Illegal Acts):

(k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.

There are no exceptions stated in the act. "Any firearm" means any firearm (as defined in GCA-68). Unless BATFE has issued later advisory guidance concerning enforcement of the contents of GCA-68 regarding pre-1968 firearms, I think the wording of the statute is clear.
Click to expand...

Seems pretty cut and dry to me,I do not see any exclusion dates.
 
There are BATFE procedures for assigning a new "Official" serial number under somewhat limited circumstances. However, I'd rather not try.
 
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