Trying to understand a Triple Lock I inherited.

u2jimbo

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My father left me a Smith & Wesson .44 Special. From reading various web articles, and looking at many images on the web, the one that appears to be a 'perfect' match to mine is described as a "New Century", hand ejector, triple lock revolver with a 6 ½" barrel. My pistol has the serial number '8124' stamped at the bottom of the hand grip frame as well as a number of other locations on the pistol.

How the triple lock mechanisms work goes deeper than a photo can describe. I found a write-up of the triple lock features: one lock engages the hand ejector pin into the cylinder hinge block (my terminology may be flawed); a second lock is disengaged when the Slide Release is pushed forward allowing the cylinder to fold out, and through which the forward hand ejector pin is depressed).

The description of the third lock was related to the "Yoke". A term not familiar to me. However, on inspection, I am guessing the third lock is the lug connected to or a part of the trigger which engages the six equally spaced cylinder depressions. When the trigger is pulled back ~ ⅛" that lug disengages the cylinder, allowing it to rotate. Conceptually, have I correctly identified the three locking mechanisms? If not, what am I missing?

Have I gathered enough information to be certain of what this pistol is?

Can the serial number (8124) shed any additional insight into the history or manufacture of the weapon?

Lastly, how does the marketplace go about establishing a value for such a gun? I have seen prices for similarly described pistols ranging from ~$1000 to ~$12,000. Given such a broad range I feel I could be taken advantage of if I don't have a clear understanding of how to value this revolver.

Thank-you for any insights you may be able to provide.
Jim
 
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A picture would speak a thousand words. Several pictures would speak volumes.

You should just have to scroll down and click on "Manage Attachments".
 
What a great inheritance. If it is a triple lock you could have a gem on your hands. Like with most collectable things condition means a lot, the value will reflect this. I will leave a price up to the experts, they will be along soon.

Looking forward to pictures.
 
The TL SN range for 1911 was 7050 to 9100 (manufacturing). Yours may well have shipped somewhat later. A TL in very good and original condition is very desirable. As stated, making a good value estimate is not possible without some detailed pictures.
 
How the triple lock mechanisms work goes deeper than a photo can describe. I found a write-up of the triple lock features: one lock engages the hand ejector pin into the cylinder hinge block (my terminology may be flawed); a second lock is disengaged when the Slide Release is pushed forward allowing the cylinder to fold out, and through which the forward hand ejector pin is depressed).

The description of the third lock was related to the "Yoke". A term not familiar to me. However, on inspection, I am guessing the third lock is the lug connected to or a part of the trigger which engages the six equally spaced cylinder depressions. When the trigger is pulled back ~ ⅛" that lug disengages the cylinder, allowing it to rotate. Conceptually, have I correctly identified the three locking mechanisms? If not, what am I missing?

Thank-you for any insights you may be able to provide.
Jim

Hi Jim,

Welcome to the forum.

The triple lock is the middle lock and photos work quite well:

The three locks are under the barrel in the extractor rod shroud, back of the cyl, and the 3rd lock, hence the nickname "Triple Lock", in the yoke at the front of the cyl. They all release simultaneously with a push of the cyl thumb piece. The front and middle locks are shown below.

The TL craftsmanship is superb and a marvel of precision hand fitting, the panache of yesteryear that we will never see again:

IMG_3883.jpg



IMG_3878.jpg



IMG_3846.jpg



1. The cam plate for the middle, 3rd lock, is held in place with a screw, visible with cyl removed. One has to remove it to truly see the amazingly perfect fit.

2. The front and middle locking bolts are two pieces pinned together in a U shape, with the pinned in short bolt leg on top and a long bolt leg on the bottom extending all the way to the yoke. The base of the U is offset to the top, resembling a soldering gun tip.

This protruding, moveable upper rectangular piece is the front end of the locking bolts, (the offset bottom of the U), retained by the upper pin like all other models, and moves in and out under a single spring tension. The round flush plug below it, 3/4" long and mostly hollow, at the front end of the shroud is another amazingly precision slip fit and fills the hole for the bottom bolt leg only.
It's pinned in place with the smaller, lower pin. This allows it to be removed and replaced w/o refinishing!

The Triple Lock is the holy grail of .44 specials! Officially it's a ".44 Hand Ejector 1st Model 1908 Military - New Century". It was introduced in 1908 along with it the brand .44 S&W Special cartridge. It has the unique feature of a third cyl lock in front of the cylinder, a feature not seen before or since. This revolver is the pinnacle of S&W design and craftsmanship. Only 15,375 were made, most chambered in .44 Spl and a few in other calibers, until discontinued in 1915 and replaced with the 2nd Model which did not have the 3rd lock or the barrel shroud. An additional ~6000 were made in 455 Mk II under contract with the British Commonwealth for WW I.
 
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OK, here are some images...

I believe the grips shown are the original ones. My dad made his own walnut target shooting grips + plus he bought an aftermarket black rubber grip. All are in excellent condition.

I hope the photos help clarify.

Thanks again for your help.
Jim
 

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Welcome to The Forum!

I love it when someone makes an entrance like this! Nice old revolver, that's what Elmer Keith was shooting when he came up with the idea of the .44 Magnum.

Those photos will be making more than one guy here drool!
 
Hondo44: Thanks for your description and photos. They helped a lot. My revolver has the same action. To clarify my understanding, is the 'yoke' the hinge block that swivels away from the revolver frame and carries the "axle" that the cylinder rotates on?

Can you point me to a manual that would explain how to disassemble this gun and help me learn the proper nomenclature?

Thanks,
Jim
 
Welcome to the forum if you haven't priced a Triple Lock in good condition you might want to before you proceed unless there is a need to I would not take that one apart unless you are very familiar with the process. Just take the grips off spray some Gunscrubber or the like in all of the openings you can find until it is clean allow to dry then some good gun oil in the same openings and call it a day just my two cents worth.
 
Hondo44: Thanks for your description and photos. They helped a lot. My revolver has the same action. To clarify my understanding, is the 'yoke' the hinge block that swivels away from the revolver frame and carries the "axle" that the cylinder rotates on?

Can you point me to a manual that would explain how to disassemble this gun and help me learn the proper nomenclature?

Thanks,
Jim

You're welcome Jim.

As mentioned above, the grips are not likely factory or they'd have a gold plated brass medallion like those in my post #7. However, they are genuine India Sambar Stag of the same quality offered by the factory back then, and very desirable today. And they are old of the same general period of your TL, selling for about $300 these days. About the same value as a vintage Circasion Walnut factory original set of stocks.

Yes, the cyl is mounted on its axis, part of the yoke which has another axis rod that pivots 90 degrees in the bottom of the frame similar to a hinge as you indicated.

I would not recommend disassembly of the front locks but do flood with cleaner/lubricant.

To remove the yoke and cylinder assembly, all one needs to do is remove the front sideplate screw. However, WARNING, about the cyl detent or hold open device shown below. It will sprout wings and head for no man knows where if the yoke and gun are not inside a plastic bag when separated.

Plunger detent pin shown here in bottom of yoke and has a spring underneath it:

YokeDetentClose-up-.jpg



When the yoke is pulled from the frame, use care or the plunger and spring can be launched across the room never to be seen again. Often because of this, the parts are missing. But check the hole in the yoke for stuck or rusted parts. If missing or stuck, let us know, "ve have our vays" of fixing these things.

This is a classic old feature to keep the cyl open when loading/unloading and prevent it from slamming closed if the gun is tipped to the right slightly. It was deleted on most hand ejector models before WW II and on all after the war except a few transitional models until 1950.

The cyl is retained in the yoke by the extractor rod knob which has a male right hand thread into the end of the extractor rod. This is different from all other Hand Ejector model 'N' frame size revolvers. So when looking at the muzzle the rod knob turns counterclockwise to unscrew.

Other than those items the following video will be the same for disassembly. Soak all screws with penetrant before attempting removal and of course as you know, use proper fitting hollow ground screwdrivers.

SMITH & WESSON MODEL 10 SERVICE REVOLVER PART 1 - YouTube
Note: The part referred to in the video as the crane is actually the yoke in S&W terms. Crane is the Colt name for that part.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KneMUM9rfw4[/ame]

SMITH & WESSON MODEL 10 PART 2 - YouTube
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SyZpmw1K-A[/ame]



As far as value of your TL, there's pros and cons.

The finish is only 40 - 50% as collector rating standards go, but it is the original.

Original serial # matching grips are gone forever, so they're priceless, but the stags are worth about the same as original vintage replacements, so that recoups some of the lost value.

It's the most common version TL, fixed sights, 44 cal, and long barrel. On the other hand, it is completely original (less grips), and unmolested by bubba or abused in any way.

I'll hazard an educated guess to get you in the ball park value range of $2-3000. Sale price has a lot to do with method of sale as well; auction usually bringing the most, but then there's commission.

For comparison, one in the condition of the TL in post #7, with target sights, a rare caliber like 45 Colt, and a factory original short barrel length, with original box and cleaning brush, is how they get to $12,000.

Now others can chime in.

Insure it for $4000 because I doubt you'd want to sell such a unique and scarce heirloom from your dad. Write down everything you know about it and when/where your dad got it, and what he did with it (provenance) for future heirs.

And most of all shoot and enjoy it!
 
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Wowee Hondo, that's quite a TL. According to the new wife, I'm officially up for adoption if that idea interests you. There are also Big Brother programs......I'm just saying.

I can't imagine selling my Dad's revolver. I have all (that I could get, I have a brother) of his guns - he was a Colt guy. In fact, I have my Dad's, Faternal & Maternal Grandfathers and Great Grandfather's collections. I paid dearly for Great Gandad's. Traded a beautiful 1922 Browning A-5 that had paid for itself multiple times at the shooting matches in SC for a $40 Nitro Hunter single barrel. I'm from a poor Appalachian family and that's the only gun he had. He carved his name in the stock and it was well worth it to me. A second cousin who was shoot'in with it one Christmas (it holds amazing paterns) at the matches, apparently valued "worth" over family lineage. Anyway, didn't mean to ramble but, the family thing is important to me. If you can collect your ancestor's shoot'in irons, you should count that as a lucky star.
Jeb
 
As far as value of your TL, there's pros and cons.

The finish is only 40 - 50% as collector rating standards go, but it is the original.

Original serial # matching grips are gone forever, so they're priceless, but the stags are worth about the same as original vintage replacements, so that recoups some of the lost value.

It's the most common version TL, fixed sights, 44 cal, and long barrel. On the other hand, it is completely original (less grips), and unmolested by bubba or abused in any way.

I'll hazard an educated guess to get you in the ball park value range of $2-3000. Sale price has a lot to do with method of sale as well; auction usually bringing the most, but then there's commission.

I think your estimates are high. I don't see this one bringing $2,000 to $3,000. It would have to have more than 85 or 90% finish to do so. The $12,000 example you cite, well, that gun is 99% or so. When one goes from 90% to 99%, values escalate rapidly and wildly! Recent examples: A really nice one, rating 90% plus, but with scratches on one side of the cylinder (like it slid on that side of the cylinder) went for $1,600 at auction recently. I purchased a really nice one within the last year, ~85% condition, and I paid $1,300. On this forum, I purchased a target model in similar condition to this one, or maybe slightly better, and I paid $1840, shipped. I would guess this one is worth $1,000 to $1,100, give or take.
 
U2jimbo, congratulations, that's a keeper! Have it checked out by a gunsmith familiar with early S&W hand ejectors.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/s-w-ha...carcity-override-condition.html#post139134110

See posts #40 and #44. I found this TL on the local sporting goods classifieds board a few days ago. All original except stocks and grungy as heck inside. It's getting a bath and service, then it will live again. I agree with mrcvs on values, but finding a 100+ year-old revolver that isn't a safe-queen, refinished, modified, or just plain thrashed is no small task. Enjoy, welcome to the Forum, and take pride in owning THE granddaddy of all Smith & Wesson N frame revolvers.


 
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You guys are terrific!

I am blown away by everyone's consideration, interest and willingness to help. Thank-you!

First off, I have no historical insight into weapons (as you have already guessed :) ), however, I was raised in a military family and spent time myself as a Combat Engineer. I also graduated with an engineering degree. I appreciate fine design, engineering and craftsmanship, particularly military equipment.

I didn't have any understanding of this revolvers place in weapons history. I do now and I thank you all again for 'raising the curtain'.

Regarding its personal family history, my wife and I got chatting about this revolver given all your interest. It is clear now that I can not sell this revolver. Here is why. My father enlisted in the army in WWII with his best friend. They both went to Officer Candidate School in Ft. Benning, Ga. (where I was born). My dad's friend had a girlfriend living in Los Angeles. She wanted to visit but didn't want to travel alone. She got her best friend to come with her. The girlfriend's friend and my dad met, Nature took its course and both couples got married before the guys deployed. Each of the men survived the war and the two couples remained lifelong buddies. My dad and his friend were lifelong hunters and gun enthusiasts. This gun belonged to the friend and my dad always admired it. Dad's friend gifted this revolver to him soon before he passed away.

It is only through this dialog with all of you that I came to understand the significance of this weapon - it is a tangible link to the introduction of my father and mother and the birth of my brother and myself. I have tears in my eyes as I write this... Both my parents have been gone for many years but recalling fond memories still evokes an emotional response. This recollection is very powerful.
 
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