Tsw vs non Tsw
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Arik
Member
Rail
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2
Price.......... 
James&theGiant1911
Member
tactical, it is like the difference between a Chevrolet Pontiac to a Cadillac
so in Smith and Wesson you would have
regular 3rd gens ----- tactical models ----- Performance Center
the tacticals have tighter tolerances, more accurate and better built but the performance center models are even better.
so in Smith and Wesson you would have
regular 3rd gens ----- tactical models ----- Performance Center
the tacticals have tighter tolerances, more accurate and better built but the performance center models are even better.
Other than the full length frame rails, tighter lock up, delayed un locking, barrels, front strap checkering, TSW series only models and design changes there is not much difference. 
Owning multiple examples of standard 3rd gen, TSW and Performance Center S&W pistols I will say that you probably get more for your money with a TSW 3rd gen pistol.
The TSW's MAY be a little bit more accurate. But whether it is worth the additional expense to a casual shooter and whether the average shooter can take advantage of that slight increase in accuracy enough to see it, is up to the individual.
For me, the main advantage of the TSW guns is the designs that were made available only in the TSW series. Specifically the 4563TSW and 4513TSW. These are perhaps the finest single stack aluminum framed 45's made by anyone.
As to the Performance Center guns........other than the Shorty 45......I am not impressed. I have better triggers on some of my much less expensive 3rd gen pistols. I think that little "Performance Center" seal costs alot of money for not much......if any....performance increase. Especially when compared to the TSW series. YMMV. Regards 18DAI
Owning multiple examples of standard 3rd gen, TSW and Performance Center S&W pistols I will say that you probably get more for your money with a TSW 3rd gen pistol.
The TSW's MAY be a little bit more accurate. But whether it is worth the additional expense to a casual shooter and whether the average shooter can take advantage of that slight increase in accuracy enough to see it, is up to the individual.
For me, the main advantage of the TSW guns is the designs that were made available only in the TSW series. Specifically the 4563TSW and 4513TSW. These are perhaps the finest single stack aluminum framed 45's made by anyone.
As to the Performance Center guns........other than the Shorty 45......I am not impressed. I have better triggers on some of my much less expensive 3rd gen pistols. I think that little "Performance Center" seal costs alot of money for not much......if any....performance increase. Especially when compared to the TSW series. YMMV. Regards 18DAI
Fastbolt
Member
The frames & slides have Box-type rails, instead of the older step-type rails. Thicker.
The barrels received continual revisions here and there. A slight change in the chamber taper in the 59XXTSW's, thicker barrel hoods, different machining in the feedramps, chamber mouths, roll-over points, etc.
They started machining the frames to allow changing mag catches for ambi use in some double column frames (you can see the "reversed" machining on the right side of the frame allowing the mag catch to be flipped and installed), but the .45 frames still required the virtually unknown (even inside the company) LH mag catch to make it an ambi setup.
The inside of the slides received some better finish and machining to relieve potential stress spots. The increased use of CNC machines, closer tolerances and better precision all helped.
The assemblies and parts, while mostly the same as those used in the standard 3rd gen guns, also benefited from improvements, revisions and better tolerances.
While the delayed unlocking would help with reducing the felt recoil experienced by the shooter, and tighter frame/slide tolerances (Box rails) would promote better inherent lockup and accuracy, I'd be surprised if most average shooters would really notice the difference.
I did like the loaded chamber inspection port incorporated in the later TSW's. I wish my original 4513TSW barrel hood had come machined with it.
Also, the later production TSW's (and the 4040PD, oddly enough) received the extra pair of machining steps necessary to allow them to accept the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly ... but good luck trying to find those assemblies at the moment. Last I heard, S&W wasn't ordering anymore of them for new commercial sales parts inventory (keeping some for repair-only use, as some LE agency customers have ordered their guns equipped with them). Maybe later on, but right now their money and attention is being focused elsewhere.
The only thing I disliked about the TSW's was the cast & riveted accessory rail. The integral machined rail was a big improvement on the full-size models (introduced for LE agency sales after commercial production had been stopped), but as far as I've ever heard, it wasn't introduced for the compact guns. I've seen a handful of new TSW duty guns that experienced broken rails (looks like a rather lightweight casting), and having the rail become part of the stainless frame is certainly an improvement.
I've always considered ordering a 3913TSW, if & when some became available as LE production surplus, but that's apparently not happening as much now that production was shifted to the Houlton plant. Also, I'd really rather have one made without the lightweight riveted rail.
Well, while we're wishing & hoping, I'd really like to see them make a 3916TSW, meaning an all-stainless version of the 3913. Yes, it would be heavier, but not quite so much as the mini-boat anchor 4516. It would lend some increased controllability to an already outstanding compact single stack TDA 9mm, I think.
As if it would ever happen ...
Anyway, the TSW's are nice improvements upon the original standard 3rd gen guns. More robust & durable. Better inherent potential accuracy & controllability.
Improved, in most ways.
They really could've been called "4th gen" guns, if the company had wanted.
The barrels received continual revisions here and there. A slight change in the chamber taper in the 59XXTSW's, thicker barrel hoods, different machining in the feedramps, chamber mouths, roll-over points, etc.
They started machining the frames to allow changing mag catches for ambi use in some double column frames (you can see the "reversed" machining on the right side of the frame allowing the mag catch to be flipped and installed), but the .45 frames still required the virtually unknown (even inside the company) LH mag catch to make it an ambi setup.
The inside of the slides received some better finish and machining to relieve potential stress spots. The increased use of CNC machines, closer tolerances and better precision all helped.
The assemblies and parts, while mostly the same as those used in the standard 3rd gen guns, also benefited from improvements, revisions and better tolerances.
While the delayed unlocking would help with reducing the felt recoil experienced by the shooter, and tighter frame/slide tolerances (Box rails) would promote better inherent lockup and accuracy, I'd be surprised if most average shooters would really notice the difference.
I did like the loaded chamber inspection port incorporated in the later TSW's. I wish my original 4513TSW barrel hood had come machined with it.
Also, the later production TSW's (and the 4040PD, oddly enough) received the extra pair of machining steps necessary to allow them to accept the spring-loaded, decock-only assembly ... but good luck trying to find those assemblies at the moment. Last I heard, S&W wasn't ordering anymore of them for new commercial sales parts inventory (keeping some for repair-only use, as some LE agency customers have ordered their guns equipped with them). Maybe later on, but right now their money and attention is being focused elsewhere.
The only thing I disliked about the TSW's was the cast & riveted accessory rail. The integral machined rail was a big improvement on the full-size models (introduced for LE agency sales after commercial production had been stopped), but as far as I've ever heard, it wasn't introduced for the compact guns. I've seen a handful of new TSW duty guns that experienced broken rails (looks like a rather lightweight casting), and having the rail become part of the stainless frame is certainly an improvement.
I've always considered ordering a 3913TSW, if & when some became available as LE production surplus, but that's apparently not happening as much now that production was shifted to the Houlton plant. Also, I'd really rather have one made without the lightweight riveted rail.
Well, while we're wishing & hoping, I'd really like to see them make a 3916TSW, meaning an all-stainless version of the 3913. Yes, it would be heavier, but not quite so much as the mini-boat anchor 4516.
It would lend some increased controllability to an already outstanding compact single stack TDA 9mm, I think. As if it would ever happen ...
Anyway, the TSW's are nice improvements upon the original standard 3rd gen guns. More robust & durable. Better inherent potential accuracy & controllability.
Improved, in most ways.
They really could've been called "4th gen" guns, if the company had wanted.
Last edited:
losingle
Member
The model 3913 ls or nl would be my preference over the tsw, rails never made much sense for cc.
Not all TSW's came with equipment rails. Most of the posters expressing an opinion above are stating a preference for the earlier pre-rail models.
Well Sir... In my humble opinion S&W reached the pinnacle of the TSW guns with this one right here.
4566TSW rail free
On those days when the 4516 stays in the drawer, this is the one on my belt. The weight of all steel guns has never been a bother for me.
Now were S&W ever to produce a 3916TSW like Fastbolt mentioned... Boy Howdy...That would be the ONE to get me shootin' 9mm again
Cheers
Bill
4566TSW rail free
On those days when the 4516 stays in the drawer, this is the one on my belt. The weight of all steel guns has never been a bother for me.
Now were S&W ever to produce a 3916TSW like Fastbolt mentioned... Boy Howdy...That would be the ONE to get me shootin' 9mm again
Cheers
Bill
What's this rail of which you speak?
Fastbolt
Member
What's this rail of which you speak?
Nice "original" 3913TSW.
Mine's the early 4513TSW.
Got one of those too
rasmith3442
Member
3916 TSW
Sign me up for one. My 3913TSW will get over it. I've been thinking about buying either a 4566 TSW or a 4563 TSW from a member. The weight issue has always been of some concern and then I remember that I carried a Gov't model Colt for nine lovely months in sunny Southeast Asia and never noticed the weight. Felt kinda naked without it when I got back to the world. One 4566 TSW coming up.
S/F,
RAS
Note to Fastbolt and 18 DAI. You fellas have been very helpful to the Forum in general and also to me personally. Why don't you two collaborate on a book of the in's and out's of S&W metal semi-autos. I'll buy the first signed copy.
S/F,
RAS
Sign me up for one. My 3913TSW will get over it. I've been thinking about buying either a 4566 TSW or a 4563 TSW from a member. The weight issue has always been of some concern and then I remember that I carried a Gov't model Colt for nine lovely months in sunny Southeast Asia and never noticed the weight. Felt kinda naked without it when I got back to the world. One 4566 TSW coming up.
S/F,
RAS
Note to Fastbolt and 18 DAI. You fellas have been very helpful to the Forum in general and also to me personally. Why don't you two collaborate on a book of the in's and out's of S&W metal semi-autos. I'll buy the first signed copy.
S/F,
RAS
GoodMornin
Member
- Joined
- Dec 19, 2012
- Messages
- 205
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- 74
I love my TSW with rail!
What's this rail of which you speak?
It's that extended horizontal line under the "Smith&Wesson" on the slide...
Got one of those too
Ladder13, is that the base plate from a seven round magazine on your six rounder? I saw your pic & I was intrigued, so I tried trading them out on a couple of my magazines. I kind of like that!
Thanks for cleararing that up for me guys. I currently own a 4513 Tsw with the 6 round mag and no rail. I also see a few others also have that same gun looking at the pictures in this post. Its definatly a keeper. Thanks again for the quick replies and praise to Fastbolt for the vast knowledge.
Fastbolt
Member
Uh, thanks, but it's not like it's really a "vast knowledge".
I'm just a LE armorer who started paying attention when the early TSW compacts were being discussed and released, and then tried to stay current as the TSW line was expanded and revised in following years. (Revision and refinement has continued even after it was discontinued as a commercial line, since there are still some existing LE customer agencies that use them.)
I've been through the 3rd gen armorer class 4 times (out of 21 armorer classes, last time I checked), but I'm not sure I'll recert on the 3rd gen pistols again. The future of LE/Gov pistols is continuing to turn toward plastic pistols.
