TTSH's "Poll of the Day"

[TTSH]

What is this selling of a 3G pistol you speak of? This is a concept alien to me.

If I were to sell, it would come with one in the gun and a spare. One mag alone in the gun and it might as well be a revolver,.....and a slow reloading revolver at that. Any more than two mags total is a waste on 90% of buyers who are unable to keep track of anything more than two anyway. Most people are little better than crows at counting.

The only exception to the two mag rule would be if I were giving a gun to someone. In that case I'd include two spares and take the time to explain why any autoloader requires a minimum of three magazines, but again, any extra beyond the three will probably just get lost. It takes a special kind of sickness to feel as if you actually need more than three magazines,.......a sickness I'm sure we all share. Point being that no 'normal' person needs or wants more than three. The fact that we all probably need 20 just shows how super-normal we are.

Well, first off, let's get one point out of the way: You and Mister Dparker are not normal people.

Okay, maybe I'm not normal either... but the scale and perseverance of your "non-normalcy" dwarfs mine!

Anyway, your points are all very good but remember that this thread and poll is not about what people need or don't need. Rather, it's all about one's selling strategy!

If you are ever of a mind to sell a 3rd Gen (which I know you are decidedly not), how would you go about selling it fastest and for the greatest overall net return... recognizing both the value and growing scarcity of many (most?) 3rd Gen magazines?

At this point (51 votes so far), the poll is showing a definite trend and likely winner. One spare magazine (two total) looks like it's going to be a clear winner with two spares (three total) still getting a very significant vote.

 

[18DAI]

AFAIK The standard production guns were all delivered with two mags. The LE order guns all came with three. Three mags generally being needed to qualify with.

I always sell mine with what they came with. Be that one, two or three. Regards 18DAI

 

[BAM-BAM]

I

Because I am buying all used and some very old, I try to figure out what is original and what may have been added to the seller's stash. But I'd sure love to know for each of my used S&W pistols (3rd Gens and SW99's mostly) exactly how many magazines were original with the factory box.

IIRC ...... which may be an issue as I get closer to the age of TTSH........all Smith 3rd Gen guns came with 2 magazines.... except for the "value line guns"............which I think, 1993 was a long time ago, only came with one.

I sold that to a good friend who "needed" a hi-cap 9mm during the first Assault weapons ban......I sold 3 mags with the gun after explaining to him why he, IMHO, needed at least 3 ( as explained in my post above)...at a "good friend in need" price.

That said; in later years I have bought 3 used 915s .....two "as new in box" one with one and the other had two magazines ....... and one used but not abused had three.

18DAI........ is correct on the Police orders...... I use to hang out at a Police Supply shop........ but again IIRC the guns came with 2 in the box and the extra magazines were packaged separately ........I'm talking orders of 10-100s of guns. Beretta are the only "Police Guns" that I recall coming with 3 mags in the box........ in special/utility packaging......

 

[kenny brooks]

IIRC ...... which may be an issue as I get closer to the age of TTSH........all Smith 3rd Gen guns came with 2 magazines.... except for the "value line guns"............which I think, 1993 was a long time ago, only came with one.

I sold that to a good friend who "needed" a hi-cap 9mm during the first Assault weapons ban......I sold 3 mags with the gun after explaining to him why he, IMHO, needed at least 3 ( as explained in my post above)...at a "good friend in need" price.

That said; in later years I have bought 3 used 915s .....two "as new in box" one with one and the other had two magazines ....... and one used but not abused had three.

18DAI........ is correct on the Police orders...... I use to hang out at a Police Supply shop........ but again IIRC the guns came with 2 in the box and the extra magazines were packaged separately ........I'm talking orders of 10-100s of guns. Beretta are the only "Police Guns" that I recall coming with 3 mags in the box........ in special/utility packaging......

Mine had two

Sent from my C6530N using Tapatalk

 

[TTSH]

IIRC ...... which may be an issue as I get closer to the age of TTSH........all Smith 3rd Gen guns came with 2 magazines.... except for the "value line guns"............which I think, 1993 was a long time ago, only came with one.

I sold that to a good friend who "needed" a hi-cap 9mm during the first Assault weapons ban......I sold 3 mags with the gun after explaining to him why he, IMHO, needed at least 3 ( as explained in my post above)...at a "good friend in need" price.

That said; in later years I have bought 3 used 915s .....two "as new in box" one with one and the other had two magazines ....... and one used but not abused had three.

18DAI........ is correct on the Police orders...... I use to hang out at a Police Supply shop........ but again IIRC the guns came with 2 in the box and the extra magazines were packaged separately ........I'm talking orders of 10-100s of guns. Beretta are the only "Police Guns" that I recall coming with 3 mags in the box........ in special/utility packaging......

So if I am understanding you correctly, there is almost no way to know for absolute certain what was original vs. added (or subtracted)... yes? I'm not even sure about my newest value line guns to be honest with you. Remember that S&W was getting sort of creative toward the end with extras and accessories.

The issue is sometimes very important to me due to the AWB we still have in place here and the whole pre-ban vs. post-ban magazine thing. It may sound strange, but one of the key reasons I recently paid a lot of money for a real nice Model 915 all original in box was to get hold of two nice examples of guaranteed all-original "pre-ban" 5900-series magazines just so I could compare them to other supposed "pre-ban" 5900-series magazines bought from local vendors. Weird, but true.

 

[BAM-BAM]

TTSH wish I could be of more help........my recollection is that my 1st and only new 915 came with just one mag.........remember thinking that it was a silly way to keep the price down .....( these were the 1st of the Value line guns I remember seeing)....... as you'd just have to buy more mags anyway!!! But I guess it held the cost down $20-30 vs 2 mags ....or at least spread it out......cus you could buy more mags. later.

Then again based on Kenny B's comment above..... maybe the dealer pulled a mag from the box.....it's been known to happen........ a lot around the time of the AWB/94/95.....so they could sell them at a premium!!!!!!!!

My hi-caps back then were the 915, a couple of 6906s and some Beretta 92s (Compact and Centurions). The Cop Shop I mentioned above had 1000s of Beretta mags (in the back)..... and would sell them to officers and me at $15-25 a pop.... till they ran out.

 

[kaveman]

........Anyway, your points are all very good but remember that this thread and poll is not about what people need or don't need. Rather, it's all about one's selling strategy! ,.........

I do understand the point of the poll, but what I would do is what I would do regardless.

I would feel rotten selling an autoloader with other than two magazines(if I had the option of including two)and I would not subject myself to the 'rotten' feeling over a hoped for (possible) profit of $10+/-. I'm not trying to be generous,......I'm being selfish. I do what I do based on what makes ME feel good. If that's pulling over to the side of the highway to change a tire for someone, then that's what I'll do, but those opportunities don't come along often enough to maintain my self-esteem.

I'm also somewhat lazy........fictional gun is worth $400. An extra magazine is likely to make the sale easier and more likely to garner the full value. Remove that extra magazine and some buyers will balk at the purchase; others will use that as a bargaining chip. Either way, the sale is more difficult and will likely reduce the amount you receive. Yes, you would still have the extra magazine held back for later sale, but that's just more work and you risk not getting your price again. Truthfully, I suspect that nine times out of ten you arrive at the same spot +/- ten bucks but ten times out of ten you work harder for it. Now if you enjoy the give and take of bargaining then I suppose there's value to be had in that but I personally don't feel that I have enough good years left to be messing around like that.

I shop for bargains,.....I don't negotiate for them, but that's me. I find good prices and I pay them. I almost NEVER dicker. That's my selfishness rearing up again,....I feel like a bum asking for a price break and I won't sell my dignity so cheaply. If/when I sell, I price well and I get my price. I generally don't dicker on that end either. I just don't enjoy it. I have no problem with people who do enjoy it,.....I just ask them once not to do it with me. If they continue, the price goes up until the leave.

The three mags on a gift gun thing is again a selfish affectation. I don't feel like it's a proper gift if it isn't slightly more than 'average' generous. It's like what I discovered years ago about tipping,.....the difference between a 'good' tip and a 'generous' tip can be as little as a dollar. Why not treat yourself to the luxury of being a generous tipper if it costs so little?

So, two mags on a pistol sale. (Especially if it's in a box, it needs two to appear complete). Three mags on a gift gun. Let the nickels take care of themselves.

 

[TTSH]

TTSH wish I could be of more help........my recollection is that my 1st and only new 915 came with just one mag.........remember thinking that it was a silly way to keep the price down .....( these were the 1st of the Value line guns I remember seeing)....... as you'd just have to buy more mags anyway!!! But I guess it held the cost down $20-30 vs 2 mags ....or at least spread it out......cus you could buy more mags. later.

Then again based on Kenny B's comment above..... maybe the dealer pulled a mag from the box.....it's been known to happen........ a lot around the time of the AWB/94/95.....so they could sell them at a premium!!!!!!!!

My hi-caps back then were the 915, a couple of 6906s and some Beretta 92s (Compact and Centurions). The Cop Shop I mentioned above had 1000s of Beretta mags (in the back)..... and would sell them to officers and me at $15-25 a pop.... till they ran out.

That real nice Model 915 I just purchased was the first 5900-series magazine-using 3rd Gen that I was virtually 100% sure was "pre-ban" and all original in box. I could be fooling myself, of course. There are absolutely no guarantees. But all the other 5900-series magazine-using guns in my collection are either ban period guns, post-ban guns or pre-ban but too sketchy, as purchased, to be reliable in terms of pre-ban vs. post-ban magazines. I am buying them 10+ years after the Federal ban expired after all.

It any case, it has helped assure me that I am fully "legal" in my silly anti-2A moonbat state. Remember, even one post-ban hi-cap magazine out of a hundred and I still go to prison for 10 years. And as we both know, I don't have enough "good years" left to give up even one of them.

 

[TTSH]

I do understand the point of the poll, but what I would do is what I would do regardless.

I would feel rotten selling an autoloader with other than two magazines(if I had the option of including two)and I would not subject myself to the 'rotten' feeling over a hoped for (possible) profit of $10+/-. I'm not trying to be generous,......I'm being selfish. I do what I do based on what makes ME feel good. If that's pulling over to the side of the highway to change a tire for someone, then that's what I'll do, but those opportunities don't come along often enough to maintain my self-esteem.

I'm also somewhat lazy........fictional gun is worth $400. An extra magazine is likely to make the sale easier and more likely to garner the full value. Remove that extra magazine and some buyers will balk at the purchase; others will use that as a bargaining chip. Either way, the sale is more difficult and will likely reduce the amount you receive. Yes, you would still have the extra magazine held back for later sale, but that's just more work and you risk not getting your price again. Truthfully, I suspect that nine times out of ten you arrive at the same spot +/- ten bucks but ten times out of ten you work harder for it. Now if you enjoy the give and take of bargaining then I suppose there's value to be had in that but I personally don't feel that I have enough good years left to be messing around like that.

I shop for bargains,.....I don't negotiate for them, but that's me. I find good prices and I pay them. I almost NEVER dicker. That's my selfishness rearing up again,....I feel like a bum asking for a price break and I won't sell my dignity so cheaply. If/when I sell, I price well and I get my price. I generally don't dicker on that end either. I just don't enjoy it. I have no problem with people who do enjoy it,.....I just ask them once not to do it with me. If they continue, the price goes up until the leave.

The three mags on a gift gun thing is again a selfish affectation. I don't feel like it's a proper gift if it isn't slightly more than 'average' generous. It's like what I discovered years ago about tipping,.....the difference between a 'good' tip and a 'generous' tip can be as little as a dollar. Why not treat yourself to the luxury of being a generous tipper if it costs so little?

So, two mags on a pistol sale. (Especially if it's in a box, it needs two to appear complete). Three mags on a gift gun. Let the nickels take care of themselves.

Another excellent post from my 3rd Gen collecting hero!

And I do get what you are saying. The only possible flaw I see in your logic, at least as it applies to folks like me, is that some of the 3rd Gen magazines in question are a whole lot more valuable than $10.00 apiece. We wouldn't be having this conversation if they were all plentiful as peanuts and just $10.00 each. Perhaps they are in some spots, but certainly not around where I live.

Let's throw out some numbers: Model 1006 magazines are going for up to $100 each and more. Model 4013/4053 magazines were almost the same (close to $100 each) until very recently. Now they are more like $50-$75 each... still stupid high. Any of the other discontinued magazines are still $50.00 and up. Yes, some are cheaper for sure... if they are readily available used or still available brand new.

I just purchased some CS40 magazines in preparation for selling my "used & abused" CS40. I won't embarrass myself by telling you what I had to pay to get those little discontinued devils.

I know you don't have to deal with the "pre-ban" thing... but that is another layer of complexity and cost on top of scarcity. It's why certain pre-ban Glock hi-cap magazines go for absolutely insane money in this silly moonbat state I live in.

Bottom line: The more your particular 3rd Gen magazines are worth, the more the poll question becomes financially relevant.

 

[BAM-BAM]

That real nice Model 915 I just purchased was the first 5900-series magazine-using 3rd Gen that I was virtually 100% sure was "pre-ban" and all original in box.

And as we both know, I don't have enough "good years" left to give up even one of them.

How/why do you believe/know they were pre-ban?????

I know 915 were only "made" pre ban........I've never paid a lot of attention to the follower color thing...... I often use a 14 round steel bottom mag in a 5900 or 915 to get a true flush fit........or just swap base-plates.

The only mags I really know go with what gun are my PC marked mags.....

____________________________________________________________

Edit: Adding to TTSH point above..... I like and have a couple of Beretta 92 Compact Type-Ms; which use single stack 8 rd mags.
In the 90s and up until a few years ago you couldn't give away the guns or the mags......... with the Internet and Forums like these ..... the guns now sell for a premium and the mags go for $70+ ....if you can even find any for sale......I use to buy them for $10-15 new still in the hanging packs. Bought all I could get.

IIRC Kaveman's has a lot of Police style guns ...... lots of mags for those out there .......... not so many for some of the other 3G guns.

 

[TTSH]

How/why do you believe/know they were pre-ban?????

It's a legitimate question. In an absolute sense, I didn't know. But the Model 915 is the only 5900-series magazine-using gun that was discontinued before the 1994 Federal AWB was even written... and the gun and box and everything else in the box appeared in the photos to be 100% original.

I wanted a Model 915 anyway... but the opportunity to get my hands and eyes on a set of true, original, shipped-with-a-discontinued-preban-gun 5900-series magazines was something I couldn't resist. And, in fact, they were the real deal. My gamble did pay off... and now I have some very hard to dispute evidence that all of the 5900-series magazines I own are 100% legal in Taxachusetts.

The story goes beyond just that... but I'll stop here for the sake of brevity.

 

[kaveman]

Yes, sorry,......I knew the $10 thing wasn't clear when I was typoing but I got called away and never explained it.

The $10 plus or minus is what I figure is at stake when trying to decide whether or not to include one single extra mag with the gun. The magazine itself might be worth $20 or $50 or $100 but whatever its value you are going to receive something for it when included. Maybe the extra mag adds $40 to the value of the pistol or maybe it makes it $40 easier to sell,......I don't know. If you don't include magazine #2 there's no guarantee that you'll ever get the true value out of it anyway so it's all just a wag and a gamble.

I doubt I'm explaining my thoughts well now, so maybe that's why I skipped it the first time. It may be a figment of my imagination,......I've never been a comfortable seller and I'm sure I don't do it the right way. Also, since I do shop intensively for bargains I never really have a 'normal' amount of money tied up in anything. When I do sell it's practically all profit no matter what I get for it. $10-$15 is my normal expenditure for magazines and I buy them whether I need them or not. I try hard not to let myself get into a position where I need a specific thing NOW regardless of cost.

I've always managed to wait to get lucky with the more common mags. 5900 and 4000 magazines have all been found for $10 apiece in larger lots. I actually had to spend $20 apiece for enough Beretta 8040 mags to feel marginally comfortable, but eventually I fell into a nice pile of them for $4 apiece so I bought enough to average out. The single-stack S&W mags have cost more than average but I'm still only around $20 each for 9mm in 7, 8, and 9rd. The .40's are probably more like $25 apiece and I'm still not happy with the number I have. I'll eventually locate a few more but there's no rush. Only have two 4053 single-stackers and don't really care for them anyway. Half a dozen mags will do.

I don't have or even really want some of the less common S&W's. I have one shorty .45 mag and one 10mm mag sitting around without guns,.......but they were cheap cheap. Couldn't not buy them. They may come in handy some day. In non-S&W I have a bunch of rarer guns where magazines are scarce and pricey when found but I still manage to eventually pick them up cheap. I have one gun,......a Bergmann MP35-1 SMG for which I have NO magazines. The gun came to me without and every magazine I've located has been $200 and up. I won't pay it. For 14yrs I've been looking. Fortunately it's not difficult to convert Steyr Solothurn magazines for the Bergmann and they're only $30 apiece(and of course I bought a ton of those for $10 each even though I don't have a Solothurn).

Glad I don't have to deal with the restrictions of some states. It would all the fun out of it. Can you still import proven pre-1994 magazines into MA without issue?

 

[BAM-BAM]

Understood you explanation the first time..... about the + or - $10........and IMO you are correct.

I rarely sell a gun outright..........maybe as described above to a friend....but have been known to "trade" up in local gun shops........

Learned long ago you generally get nothing for extra magazines or leather gear.......but you/I generally don't get asked about extra magazines or offered more if I have a second or third.

I've found dealers to be all over the board on used guns......some sell the extra magazines and leather with the gun ...... some strip them out and sell separability...unless asked or pushed to throw them in for a sale.

So I started to hang onto them...... at least the more common ones or if I'm trading up it gives me one more magazine.

But to TTSH's question.......I think a used gun will "sells" faster to a knowledgeable buyer with 2; or better yet with 3 magazines...... as long as the price is "fair for the package". You may be $10 or $20 out of pocket but the used gun will sell more quickly!

On your other points.....I've always tried to pick up every magazine that matches a gun or type I have; or want, if the price is right......not so much anymore but LGSs use to have baskets of used mags.......cheap. Often they didn't even know what gun the mags were for...... but would happily take $10-15 for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[TTSH]

Yes, sorry,......I knew the $10 thing wasn't clear when I was typing but I got called away and never explained it.

The $10 plus or minus is what I figure is at stake when trying to decide whether or not to include one single extra mag with the gun. The magazine itself might be worth $20 or $50 or $100 but whatever its value you are going to receive something for it when included. Maybe the extra mag adds $40 to the value of the pistol or maybe it makes it $40 easier to sell,......I don't know. If you don't include magazine #2 there's no guarantee that you'll ever get the true value out of it anyway so it's all just a wag and a gamble.

Okay, I think I get it now. I believe what you're saying is that the net profit or loss to you as a result of a decision to include or not include X number of additional magazines is only +/- $10.00 per magazine. It's not that $10.00 is the market value of the magazine in question. Rather, it's the noise level (financially) for including it with the gun vs. keeping it for yourself or selling it separately.

Bam got it the first time around... but he's younger and smarter than poor, old, half-senile me.

Glad I don't have to deal with the restrictions of some states. It would all the fun out of it. Can you still import proven pre-1994 magazines into MA without issue?

Importing pre-ban hi-caps is still perfectly legal. However, the trick is to find someone who will do it. Most of the larger firearms-related companies fear the wrath of our loony, anti-2A, moonbat AG lady and feel it's not worth the risk of ticking her off for very little potential profit. Individuals and smaller companies, on the other hand, easily fly under her radar and risk nothing. That's the reality of the law as currently written... although some of the more radical anti-2A folks in government would love to have the law "re-imagined" by the courts into something far more oppressive and onerous.

 

[TTSH]

Understood you explanation the first time..... about the + or - $10........and IMO you are correct.

I rarely sell a gun outright..........maybe as described above to a friend....but have been known to "trade" up in local gun shops........

Learned long ago you generally get nothing for extra magazines or leather gear.......but you/I generally don't get asked about extra magazines or offered more if I have a second or third.

I've found dealers to be all over the board on used guns......some sell the extra magazines and leather with the gun ...... some strip them out and sell separability...unless asked or pushed to throw them in for a sale.

So I started to hang onto them...... at least the more common ones or if I'm trading up it gives me one more magazine.

But to TTSH's question.......I think a used gun will "sells" faster to a knowledgeable buyer with 2; or better yet with 3 magazines...... as long as the price is "fair for the package". You may be $10 or $20 out of pocket but the used gun will sell more quickly!

On your other points.....I've always tried to pick up every magazine that matches a gun or type I have; or want, if the price is right......not so much anymore but LGSs use to have baskets of used mags.......cheap. Often they didn't even know what gun the mags were for...... but would happily take $10-15 for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Both you and the Kaveman seem to have a knack for scoring lots of hard-to-find 3rd Gen magazines at bargain basement prices. I think GaryS has done really well at times too. He is very good at used magazine bargain bin diving up in Kittery!

I've had my share of good scores as well... I can't deny it. Some great folks on the forum have helped me out a lot and I thank them all. This is a great forum!

I've also overpaid at times to the point of total embarrassment. I chalk it up to a lack of patience on my part... and the occasional magazine deficiency panic attack! It doesn't happen too much anymore as I learn of other better options... but some of my local and Internet magazine scores were so bad (financially-speaking) that they aren't even fit for publication.

 

[TTSH]

And the winner is...

Okay, 72 votes in and time to close out the poll since we have a very clear winner: Most forum members feel the optimum financial return and speed of sale would come from including one spare magazine with the gun... in other words, two total magazines.

Still, a sizable number of members feel that two spares (three, in total) is the optimum way to go.

I didn't vote since I started the poll. I'll admit that the poll result surprised me a little since we are talking mainly 3rd Gens here. But apparently the feeling is that a lower asking price with one spare magazine trumps a necessarily or logically higher asking price with two spares included (assuming the seller is really out to maximize return).

And clearly, no one was impressed with the idea of no spare magazines despite the fact that a whole lot of 3rd Gens around where I live end up being sold that way. I'm not surprised.

How would I have voted? I'm still not sure. I know that my infamous "used & abused" CS40 is unlikely to sell at any sort of reasonable price without at least 2 spares. It's just a gut feeling I've got. Sub-compact 40's around here are not in very high demand and the scarcity of discontinued CS40 magazines adds to that problem. We'll see if my decision to go with two spares helps or hurts. I know I'm going to lose money on the deal overall but such is life. I'll just have to make it up elsewhere.

On the other hand, the cop trade-in Model 4566TSW I'm selling will go up for sale with just one spare magazine to keep the asking price just as low as possible. Both of these are going to be local dealer consignment sales for reasons only a Massachusetts resident might start to understand. I just want them gone without a lot of headaches or using up one of my four allowed FTF transfers. I also owe a couple valued dealers some business.

Thanks to everyone who participated in the poll! I think it was another successful one!