Turn line question for S&W pistolsmiths

[bigmoose]

Experts,

Is the turn line on S&W revolvers caused by closing the cylinder while the cylinder is in such a position that the bolt scratches the cylinder as the shooter rotates the cylinder to engage the locking recess? As I operate my revolvers in single or double action it appears that the bolt immediately starts to retract and cannot scratch anything. It does not start to protrude again until it is underneath the ‘feed ramp’ (not sure of correct term) and then fully snaps into the locking recess of the appropriate chamber.

As a follow-on question, If I carefully closed the cylinder in such a way as to direct the bolt into a feed ramp (and then rotating a few degrees to lock it up) would this minimize the chance of creating a turn line/worsening an already existing turn line?

Thanks for any and all replies.

Cap

 

[steelslaver]

Actually the cylinder stop is only retracted for a brief time by the trigger allowing it to unlock then it pops back up and rides against the cylinder shortly after it starts turning and way before the lead in to the stop notch.

You can close your cylinder as carefully as possible, but it will still get a turn line during normal operation.

It can be mitigated by polishing the top of the stop and very slightly breaking its leading edge.

Put some dye chem like Prussian blue or any removable marking on the cylinder and you will see exactly where it hits and rides.

 

[jkmo]

4 way movement on the cylinder stop. Up down and front to back

 

[Nightowl]

You did not say what make of revolver you are looking at that the "bolt" comes back up the "feed ramp".
A Smith & Wesson revolver is designed so that the cylinder stop snaps back right after the cylinder turns a very short distance and rides the cylinder until it rises to insert into the next chamber stop notch. That is what makes the drag line on the cylinder. It is designed to do it that way and is just the way Smiths function. Some folks will smooth the ball of the cylinder stop to slow down and decrease the progression of the line, but you need to know how to take the gun apart before working on the cylinder stop. Folks who have collector guns will try to put the cylinder in place over the cylinder stop to reduce the line, but working guns will get it by shooting or dry firing.

 

[bigmoose]

OK, thank you for the insightful answers. I now have a better understanding of how it works. Upon closer inspection I now see how the cylinder stop pops back up shortly after it had receded. I’m a bit embarrassed that I missed that. As usual, this forum never ceases to come through.

 

[rct269]

For what it's worth, I returned a Satin Blue K-22 to the factory to be refinished in Bright Blue----and asked that they have their very best craftsman go through it, and make it as perfect as possible------------this in 4 60.

The gun was back inside of two weeks---a thing of beauty, but no mention of what, if anything, had been done aside from the refinishing.

It took awhile, but I came to notice it had no turn line. Actually, it did---a very faint line, perhaps 3/32" long at the lead into each cylinder stop notch. I made the mistake of telling Jinks about it, and he had a hissy fit! "They NEVER should have done that----it'll skip chambers in rapid double action fire!"

I didn't have the heart to tell him about half of a half a box car load of ammunition had been through that gun in as rapid double action as I could manage---and it never missed a beat!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Alk8944]

The turn line is inherent in the design of the hand-ejector mechanism. The only thing that causes it is rotation of the cylinder, not anything specific about how the gun is closed or anything else. It cannot be prevented except by leaving the gun in it's box and never handling it for any reason! If anyone tells you any different they simply do not know what they are talking about and don't understand the mechanism.

 

[steelslaver]

I fail to see how the trigger could keep moving to its cock position and have the tip in its front that operates the cylinder stop keep it in its down position. a longer tip on trigger and more ledge on the stop where trigger engages might delay it some, but not much and still release it.

 

[chief38]

Show me a revolver without a turn line and I'll show you a revolver that's never been shot or had its trigger pulled! It's just a normal part of owning a Revolver!

 

[ms]

me too

For what it's worth, I returned a Satin Blue K-22 to the factory to be refinished in Bright Blue----and asked that they have their very best craftsman go through it, and make it as perfect as possible------------this in 4 60.

The gun was back inside of two weeks---a thing of beauty, but no mention of what, if anything, had been done aside from the refinishing.

It took awhile, but I came to notice it had no turn line. Actually, it did---a very faint line, perhaps 3/32" long at the lead into each cylinder stop notch. I made the mistake of telling Jinks about it, and he had a hissy fit! "They NEVER should have done that----it'll skip chambers in rapid double action fire!"

I didn't have the heart to tell him about half of a half a box car load of ammunition had been through that gun in as rapid double action as I could manage---and it never missed a beat!

Ralph Tremaine

I have a 5-screw k22, also factory refinished. If you cock it slowly the stop pops up just into the ramp. It has a very light turn line, there when I got it. No trace of the mark most cylinders have where the stop pops up. Only one I've seen like it.

 

[bigmoose]

Guys,
I don't mind turn lines at all. Most of my favorite Smith and Wesson revolvers have them. The reason for the thread was to find out more info on how the turn line is produced. I have lately been interested in possibly buying a Colt First or Second gen SAA. Those guns really confuse me. I see several parallel 'turn lines' all across the cylinders. Weird...are they caused by spinning the cylinder rapidly while clenching roofing nails in the other hand?

 

[Fullmetaljacket]

Luck of the draw I think. I have a 1965 M14-2 that I have put hundreds of rounds through and it has only the faintest of turn lines, not even through the bluing. No function issues in double action mode. All my other Smiths have the usual bright line. Have not lost a bit of sleep over either condition.

 

[MSD2343]

Unfortunately don’t have a good example to show from my own collection, but I love the look of a well maintained but well used blued revolver where the bright turn line contrasts sharply against the rest of the finish. Lends a bit of character and notoriety to the piece.

 

[Muss Muggins]

You oughta see how many times the cylinder was rotated during the hand fitting of the parts . . .

 

[rockquarry]

Turn lines apparently bother some people; seems they see such as undue wear. I'm no gunsmith. Most of my S&W revolvers I've had a good while and I shoot them regularly. I've never paid a great deal of attention to turn lines, but have observed barely noticeable lines on some guns and heavier lines on others. Without examining each, I can't say offhand which have light or heavy lines, but all have been fired considerably, some for thirty or forty or more years.

 

[bgrafsr]

Guys,
I don't mind turn lines at all. Most of my favorite Smith and Wesson revolvers have them. The reason for the thread was to find out more info on how the turn line is produced. I have lately been interested in possibly buying a Colt First or Second gen SAA. Those guns really confuse me. I see several parallel 'turn lines' all across the cylinders. Weird...are they caused by spinning the cylinder rapidly while clenching roofing nails in the other hand?

One way the turn line gets on a Colt SAA is if the cylinder is closed and the hammer was not on half cock.

 

[Hair Trigger]

One way the turn line gets on a Colt SAA is if the cylinder is closed and the hammer was not on half cock.

The cylinder is always closed on a SAA, it doesn't swing out. Putting the hammer at half-cock pulls the cylinder stop down to allow turning the cylinder manually to load and unload it through the gate, which flips open on the right side.

 

[Kp321]

One of the first lessons I learned from the “old timers” concerning S&W revolvers is to cock and release the hammer after closing the cylinder. This minimizes the turn line.
Now I am the “old timer”.