Two New S&Ws with Bad Timing - Should Perfect Timing Be Expected?

[Hapworth]

...You actually want a little drag on the cylinder. Pull the trigger slowly while using your weak hand thumb to apply a very slight amount of drag to the cylinder.

Going slowly prevents inertia from locking the cylinder prematurely and the drag from your thumb takes out the slop in the works. If it doesn't lock up on all notches, send 'er back to S&W!

Agreed. A member recently posted in another thread that no revolver will time properly if even a little drag is put to the cylinder and in my experience that can't be further from the truth. A very gentle bit of support-hand thumb pressure against cylinder rotation can reveal a worn or damaged hand, causing slippage. It's definitely a good check.

 

[HarrishMasher]

OP Here:
I just got a tracking label for my friendly rep at S&W who took care of my last 386NG with the same problem that I am still waiting to receive back. So 386NG number two is off to the Motherland today.

Kind of annoying buying 2 new guns that both cost a fortune and have to send them both back for repair. Now I have neither of them!

 

[jaymoore]

Have found not too many perfectly timed S&Ws, new or old, over the years. Have sorted quite a few myself but others I have don't get messed with. One favorite, a 1990s 625, is very uniformly short timed! By a good amount. But everything else, including the way it shoots, is super good. I just finish turning the clyinder into lock with the index finger when shooting. Afraid to mess with it as it's my absolute best cast bullet launcher....

 

[chief38]

IMHO their QC has been allowed to slip over recent years. I will NOT say that I never got a poorly fitted /adjusted gun from them in the 70's or 80's (I did have a few) but they were certainly fewer and farther between back then.

The building and Manufacturing process has changed so much that they are now employing more people with better computer skills and less mechanical abilities. I'll bet there are few to none in their employee who would even have the skill to grind and polish a new hammer mounted firing pin as on the older Smiths. Because of the way they make their guns now it's probably less expensive for them to replace a few guns a month than to hire REAL GS's who would make sure they went out the door right to begin with. CERTAINLY NOT isolated to the Gun Industry!!

 

[Biggfoot44]

"Perfect" timing can involve a number of angels dancing on a pinhead. Absolute minimum standard : All chambers should pass a "Field" range rod , when cycled slowly with light drag on cylnder.

 

[ironhead7544]

Recently picked up a 38 Special M&P from the early fifties. Pre times as it should. I would guess they are not hand fitting the parts. The MIM is supposed to be that good. A new revolver should carry up.

 

[sodacan]

Why are you even asking the question? If the timing is bad, the gun is probably broken or really dirty and should be fixed or cleaned.

 

[HarrishMasher]

Why are you even asking the question? If the timing is bad, the gun is probably broken or really dirty and should be fixed or cleaned.

The guns are immaculate. The guns are not "broken". After much reading on this forum I'm learning timing is somewhat of a subjective thing. People have different definitions of what is acceptable when it come to correct timing. Hence the need to ask the question.

If you read my post carefully...when slowly pulling the hammer back the gun does not fully lock up on every chamber. When pulling the hammer back swiftly and firmly, it locks up perfectly. I was trying to determine how bad the timing was by asking the question, hence the title of my post.

 

[schneiderguy]

Recently picked up a 38 Special M&P from the early fifties. Pre times as it should. I would guess they are not hand fitting the parts. The MIM is supposed to be that good. A new revolver should carry up.

I don't believe that either the hand or the ratchets are MIM parts.

 

[Texas Star]

Sad. Even the front of the ejector rod is all buggered up. I was first one at shop who handled it too.
JR.

That's just plain sad and sorry work. S&W, like all makers, has its screw-ups, and that is certainly an example.

Back in the 1960's and '70's, I rejected about 8 in every 10 new revolvers that I considered buying, for timing defects. Don't recall it on Rugers, but on both Colt and S&W. Some had additional problems, too. And it happened on Astra and Llama guns. Taurus was not yet a serious brand in the USA and I never checked one.

Harry Archer, who worked for US AID, teaching cops and soldiers in other countries, had friends at the S&W factory. He also did limited writing for a gun magazine. We corresponded after I read his fascinating accounts of using S&W revolvers in Amazonian jungles. Harry told me that if I couldn't get a new gun that was timed right, to send it back to S&W under warranty and to demand that it be "re-timed to minimum tolerances." He often did that.

BTW, he got a three-inch barreled nickeled M-19 that did very well by him in Amazonia, but the finish was badly damaged by the elements in that rain forest environment. He also had an early Model 60 snub 38. It was the first stainless model, and he was ecstatic that it didn't rust or lose chunks of rifling to the elements. Both guns fared well on jungle-range shots at deer, tapir; even a jaguar or two. He did load the M-60 very hot.


For the record, he really favored hard chromed Colt .45 autos as a best use handgun under most circumstances. (Colt was not then making these in stainless.) He pointed out that most small parts that might break were more easily changed out in such an auto. But he was also quite fond of S&W revolvers...if they were made right!