Two new Shields.. Two different trigger pulls ?
- Thread starter DeeBee
- Start date
Thats funny
Wasn't really meant to be funny (or insulting, etc
).Might still be applicable even if you're a firearms instructor, too.
The last couple of guys with whom I worked using their M&P's included a firearms instructor/armorer and a fellow who's not exactly an inexperienced shooter.
Both wanted to carry M&P's (FS, compact & Shield) as authorized duty & off-duty weapons ... which meant that aftermarket parts which had gone into at least a couple of their guns for use as range/target guns wouldn't be authorized.
After the guns were restored to factory spec condition, I spent some time out on the firing line with them (different range sessions & times).
After refocusing the attention of both on the basics & fundamentals, getting them off relying upon distracting things like a 1-2 lbs difference in trigger press, "trigger reset", etc, I pushed them to participate in increasingly difficult and demanding drills. Grip technique, positioning, balance, sight alignment/picture/indexing and proper trigger recovery became their focus. 1 & 2-handed, point shoulder, close comb at/retention, shooting-while-moving & shooting-between-moving, etc.
Both of them experienced a marked increase in being able to better utilize their existing skills and abilities, getting their attention back to the basics. Both expressed surprise that they couldn't "feel' the weight or smoothness of their trigger press while actually involved in running drills and making critical decisions (identifying threat/no-threat targets and determining how to best engage them).
Now, if we were talking about going up against some grandmasters in a competitive venue, where skillsets were already highly developed and hundredths or thousandths of a second might mean the difference between winning (scoring), then I'd certainly see the practicality of having a highly refined competition gun that was a "10 out of 10" when it came to manufacturing tolerances, fit, trigger job, etc.
For the rest of us, though?
Let's just say that I no longer worry about having a trigger pull on any of my 1911's that's at (or below) the factory spec weight for either of the manufacturers (Colt & S&W). I'm content, as an owner, user and armorer for the 1911, to have trigger pulls running 5-6+ lbs in my "working" 1911's.
I've seen guys shoot M&P's with all the aftermarket parts, and watch them not shoot themmas well as other guys using stock guns.
When it comes down to it, if you "improve" a particular gun, you may only be able to shoot that particular gun well.
However, if you "improve" yourself, those skills can be applied to any gun.
Just depends what you want out of things.
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OP
DeeBee
Member
I wouldnt think,that two identical mass produced guns would have such a radical differerence in trigger pull?.... That being said,I can shoot them both equally well, but I really need to take more time with the one they were supposed to fix,because the pull is NOT consistant.
I wish they would have taken some time to at least try to fix it? Plus my arthritic finger does not like Shield #2.
I explained all of this in a letter that I sent in with the gun,but I guess they dont really read the notes. They probably read the first sentence and go from there? Then to top it off they keep it for 3 weeks!
I wish they would have taken some time to at least try to fix it? Plus my arthritic finger does not like Shield #2.
I explained all of this in a letter that I sent in with the gun,but I guess they dont really read the notes. They probably read the first sentence and go from there? Then to top it off they keep it for 3 weeks!
Probably didn't keep it 3 weeks while working on it.
Probably took that long for it to have its turn come up. Might only have taken all of 10 minutes for it to be checked and finished (even if replacing a TB, after reading your notes).If the design and manufacturing tolerance spec allows for a plus or minus of 2 pounds (in relation to the average trigger pull weight), if the gun falls within that spec range it's not like that might change even if they try a few trigger bars, to see if one falls within the rest of the tolerance stack to give a pull on the lighter end of the range.
Sure, they might get lucky and find a combination of parts that falls at the lightest end of the average +/- range, but that takes time.
Half a pound is practically nothing for a normal tolerance range with some plastic guns, too. I remember in another plastic pistol armorer class where they told us that we could hope to see trigger pulls in stock guns run as close as half a pound, on average, but not to be surprised if it varied more from gun to gun.
Like I said earlier, it's not like these are "hand-fit" custom guns. They're parts-bin guns.
Why not call the Performance Center and have them change the sear and do their smithing work, if you want a lighter & smoother trigger pull?
I certainly empathize with your particular needs if you suffer from arthritis, though. Really.
I've seen folks range from pleased, to not-so-pleased, with some aftermarket parts in the M&P's. One guy noticed a big difference in one of his guns, so he ordered more parts for another new M&P he was ordering. Once that next M&P arrived he discovered the factory trigger pull weight & smoothness was indistinguishable from his other, modified M&P trigger ... and that installing the aftermarket parts didn't "improve" anything that he could feel with his finger. You just never know.
Keeping factory parts, or having the factory do the work and use their parts, helps with any future warranty issues, though.
Since the Shield was designed and marketed as a personal defensive pistol, as well as a LE secondary & off-duty weapon, I'd be surprised if we see a "competition" model released ... but never-say-never when it comes to what's on the back burner at S&W.
I listen to different folks at the company end up being surprised all the time. 
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N4KVE
Member
Years ago a dealer at a gun show was selling 2 identical Bushmaster factory assembled lowers. Sequential serial numbers, so they were made minutes from each other. One had an almost target trigger that was amazing, & the other had the worst trigger in the world. Stuff happens, & what is the actual value of the parts that could make the difference. The factory is cranking out Shields so fast to keep up with demand, I'm sure this happens all the time. Most people wouldn't know the difference, as they only buy 1 Shield, but the OP bought 2 Shields, so he can compare them to each other. GARY
I've never seen a trigger pull gauge used. I assume you perform the test at your own pace? Fast pull or slow pull?
When I pull the trigger on all three of my pistols, the effort seems higher when I pull the trigger slower. Is that my imagination or real?
When I dry-fire practice, I do it with a quicker finger motion.
When I pull the trigger on all three of my pistols, the effort seems higher when I pull the trigger slower. Is that my imagination or real?
When I dry-fire practice, I do it with a quicker finger motion.
OP
DeeBee
Member
well the only way to solve this is by replacing the sear,with either a S&W part,or Apex sear. Unless the sear I have now can be reshaped to lower the trigger pull ?
I keep comparing the two guns, and Shield #1 has a perfect trigger pull IMO, (its kind of spongy soft like a Glock) and Shield #2 has a terribly hard break.(It breaks hard all at once). I wish Apex made a 5.5lb. sear.
I think a 4.5lb pull may be too light for carry?
One more thing I noticed is that on Shield#2 when using just the trigger reset, the trigger pull feels great..any ideas why that would be?
I keep comparing the two guns, and Shield #1 has a perfect trigger pull IMO, (its kind of spongy soft like a Glock) and Shield #2 has a terribly hard break.(It breaks hard all at once). I wish Apex made a 5.5lb. sear.
I think a 4.5lb pull may be too light for carry?One more thing I noticed is that on Shield#2 when using just the trigger reset, the trigger pull feels great..any ideas why that would be?
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robkarrob
Member
DeeBee
So what you are saying is the pull is hard and bad, but if you rack the slide back , while holding the trigger fully back, then just releasing the trigger to the reset, when you pull the trigger back again, the pull is good?????
You have solved the problem, which was mentioned long ago. It is striker blocker related, as by only releasing the trigger back to reset, the blocker did not drop down, and did not need to be pushed up by the blocker tab on the trigger bar.
Bob
So what you are saying is the pull is hard and bad, but if you rack the slide back , while holding the trigger fully back, then just releasing the trigger to the reset, when you pull the trigger back again, the pull is good?????
You have solved the problem, which was mentioned long ago. It is striker blocker related, as by only releasing the trigger back to reset, the blocker did not drop down, and did not need to be pushed up by the blocker tab on the trigger bar.
Bob
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