Two questions on LEOSA in your state....

[SuperMan]

I hear a lot about "firearms qualifications" when LEOSA questions come up, but was wondering if any state but mine, as in New Hampshire, makes you go through a Use of Deadly Force Course yearly just like if you were still on the job.

Police Standards and Training has a whole separate four hour course that one has to sit through as well as back to back qualifying with the specific gun one is going to carry.

Second question is, what percentage of retired officers in your department actually get the ID and take the time to do the qualification course.... Here in NH it is REAL low..I would bet less than 10% of active officers ever carry their guns off duty....let alone retired ones. I was with two different departments in NH. In one 2/36 carried, the second 3/68 carried.... Just wondering if it is any different where you work....

Thanks...Bob

 

[Model39]

Course Required And Class Always Full

Here is upstate New York we are required to take the course in a class room before we shoot, and every training class I attend is always full. Not too many departments offer HR-218 training for their retirees so our classes have LEOs from many different departments attending each training session. Our new (pro-gun) Sheriff has now allowed us to set up a pistol club through our department (starting in 2019) to be able to certify our retirees for HR-218, as well as being able to shoot more often to stay in practice for both retired and still active members of the department.

 

[ispcapt]

While we're filling out the paperwork (score sheets) the range officer will update us with any changes from the previous year. Go do the shoot, get a new sticker for our card, and out the door. If it wasn't for all the BSing that goes on we'd be out of there in 30 minutes.
I no longer have access to the numbers of how many of our retirees qualify. Our dept wouldn't even know how many retirees are still alive. Would have to go to the state retirement board to get that info.

 

[WCCPHD]

North Carolina's requirements:

12 NCAC 09H .0102 MINIMUM TRAINING SPECIFICATIONS

(a) Each qualified retired law enforcement officer must qualify with each handgun he/she will carry in accordance with the standards outlined in 12 NCAC 09E .0105(1) and 12 NCAC 9E .0106 (a), (c), (e), (f) and (g), which shall be incorporated in classroom instruction and firearms qualification on the firing range utilizing the course of fire from the Specialized Firearms Instructor Training Manual.

(b) In addition to the standards set out in Rules 9E .0105 and .0106, each qualified retired law enforcement officer shall also receive a minimum of two (2) hours of instruction on the North Carolina laws of self defense and the use of force by private citizens, detention of persons by private persons, and assistance to law enforcement officers by private persons.

(c) Qualified retired law enforcement officers shall qualify with each handgun that will be carried concealed at least once every 12 months. For the purpose of this rule, handgun shall include semi-automatic pistols or revolvers.

"NCAC" is North Carolina Administrative Code.

 

[Fastbolt]

CA is (surprisingly) quite easy in its approach to LEOSA. It doesn't have a "state standard" for required training for the purpose of LEOSA, allowing agencies to decide upon whatever method/type of annual qualification suits them. Of course, that means it might vary throughout the state as you look around, too.

My former agency has been seeing a lot more retirees from outside the area call and request scheduling for the single monthly retirement qual session. Probably because there's typically been no fee charged for anything for our retiree range, unlike what I've heard about in some nearby areas. Nor is there any classroom portion required for the qual session. Just a rather basic qual course-of-fire as is typically used for off-duty weapons. (Secondary/backup weapons carried on-duty by our active folks have to go through whatever current duty course-of-fire is presently in effect, but off-duty weapons are typically a simpler, shorter course-of-fire.)

Last I heard, they may be considering beginning to impose a small fee on retirees from outside the agency due to all the "outside" retirees who have been wanting to be scheduled to attend the single monthly retirement qual session. Just enough of a fee to offset the cost of the extra instructors needed (at least one of whom would be on OT), and some of the increased use of the normal range materials (target, wood braces, etc). Outside retirees would probably start being expected to bring their own ammunition, too, but even our own retirees are expected to bring any "non-duty" calibers we don't typically stock.

The retiree is given a signed letterhead form that indicates the date/time of the qualification, an expiration date, and includes the basic language of LEOSA, with the retiree's signature indicating he/she understands the restrictions of LEOSA privileges. It used to list the details of the specific handguns(s) used for the qual, but has been simplified to just state the individual has successfully qualified with either a pistol or revolver, or both (at the choice of the retiree).

 

[JamesArthur60]

At my department: walk in the range, show clear firearm, walk to classroom, BS and see how some guys are unrecognizable due to old age, fill out paperwork, back to range, grab target, is the line ready, target turns…Bang; score target, get new updated qualification card and leave until next year. So easy it seems pointless. So, regrading your other question, I'll bet a high percentage of retired officers do not carry. I think for obvious reasons.

 

[Muss Muggins]

A: No.

2: I’m a retired Federal LEO. My former agency has about 74 officers in the area. Since I retired, I have been shooting with the same three other fellas. I know of one other retirees who is a bailiff, and he would shoot if not for that qualification. We shoot with retired St. Louis County fellas, and there’s usually about 25 on the line. They do four retiree shoots, and I suspect the numbers are similar. In general, very few eligible retirees utilize LEOSA.

I’d guess it’s the same as the percentage of CCP holders who actually carry regularly . . .

 

[KSDeputy]

NO, we just qualify with a semi or revolver whichever we want to carry. If we want to carry both, we must qualify with both.

 

[JWM]

1). South Carolina: No statewide LEOSA rules. Individual departments set up their own programs for retirees.
2). Retired fed also from DHS. DHS put on a 2008 memo to all component agencies that a retired photo ID would be issued if requested by the retiring employee. But, all component agencies were forbidden to offer any firearm qualifications to retired personnel. So, I have to seek out a local police agency to get my annual qual. Fortunately, my previous agency has a very good relationship with a local police department that let us do our quarterly qualifications on their range. Due to that relationship, they offer retired LEOSA quals free of charge. No classroom stuff; we go straight to the line and shoot. In/out in about 20 minutes.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Percentage wise, can't give you a number...Since all comers are welcome at the LEOSA shoot, But it is a higher percentage of the local retired PD guys vs fellows like Muss...I know there are some retired FBI types and some retired S/O's there too...

We shoot once a year, either April or October. I'd guess around 150 to 200 per session, maybe more...Depends on the session...Football season, October of course it's less.


I like to check in around 10:30 or 11:00, just to see who's there I might remember, or see if my serial number is the oldest attending.

We don't have any class room time, it would take too much time to herd us all into one room, or give several sessions throughout the day.

As was mentioned in another post about LEOSA qualifying, where I'm at they go by what's written, not what's meant to be....We qualify to "Conceal" carry, so once we qualify with a handgun "type", we're good to go with either..Only restriction is no black powder guns, nor single action 6 guns...For me qualifying with a Smith revolver, I need to bring extra speed loaders.

No getting down in the mud, nor hiding behind a car door, shooting with a flashlight .

A regular CCW course doesn't require those things to get a CCW permit, so the old agency doesn't require it from the retirees either.



I can see where most all places require you to bring your own ammo, cause there is no way, the agency could provide ammo for all the different makes and calibers of fire arms...But other than that, even those from outside the agency do not have to pay anything extra for the use of the facilities, and having the paper work done.






WuzzFuzz

 

[Goldstar225]

In Arkansas there's no recurring training required. We show up, load magazines and shoot the same state approved course of fire as the active officers. We only shoot one weapon type (revolver or semi) and are covered for any sidearm we choose to carry. The majority of our retirees show up for the qualification.

 

[oink]

No extra classroom training here in FL. Have to shoot revolver and semi-auto if you want to carry both. We shoot the FDLE (Florida Division Of Law Enforcement) course. I'm guessing the active Deputies have a more involved course of fire. I have no idea what percentage of our retirees qualify or carry. I am curious. I'll try to remember to ask next time I'm out there.

 

[SuperMan]

Thanks for all the replies and information....

Got a call yesterday afternoon stating there were some openings for today's qualifications so I went up and qualified with a 60-10 3" .357 and my daily carry Colt Commander in .38 Super... After the shoot we went back to the SO and the FI banged the letters out right there and then...great guy.... So now I have four listed guns that I can take out of state to ares where my NH or Ct. permits aren't valid...

Bob

 

[Dvan34]

Here we are pretty much on our own. My former RO moved to Texas but referred me to another one. I called him yesterday and set up an appointment at the local indoor range at 2PM. Went in signed the range papers, and filled out the R.O.s' required info, shot 36 rds, paid the fees and I'm done for another year. As a former federal LEO, my former agency (U.S. Customs and Border Protection) has had no contact with me since I retired 30 years ago to this date. The new R.O. had trouble believing that. They're too busy doing their thing at the Border.

 

[Marshal Tom]

I am on the western slope in CO where I was a Chief and an UnderSheriff for many years. We show up at the SO once a year and shoot a very simple(BS) qualification and have our letter signed by the RO, updating the fact that we meet the requirements. It is my understanding that it does not matter what you qualify with in tems of what you are allowed to carry. I carry a variety of weapons depending on what I am doing but usually qualify with a Glock 19.

 

[Beachcomber]

Superman, I'm a retired MA LEO and I live in New Hampshire. I came to the conclusion that since I don't travel outside of New England... I just get a hard copy New Hampshire Resident permit and a Massachusetts Non-Resident permit. With those licenses I can carry concealed in VT, MA, NH, and ME. (Not to mention the other States that honor a NH Resident permit.) All in all... it ends up costing me $100 per year for the MA Non-Resident and $20.00 for a five year NH Resident... and I don't have to find a Department or LEOSA Instructor to qualify me.

 

[Steve_in_PA]

I do LEOSA certifications and in PA, as far as the use of force, i'm supposed to go over the UOF for a non-LEO when I do a certification/re-certification. I'm also supposed to go over safe firearm handling procedures.

Nothing dictates how long it has to be, no test required, etc.

In my department, we only have two retired officers who take part in LEOSA. We are a small, local department. I do qualify a few others from other departments and some out of state retirees living in PA.

 

[cololab]

No classroom or skull session required by any SO or PD where I've done my 218 qualifications. The above departments all have a similar course of fire with some seemingly having the course designed in five shot stages to accomodate those carrying J frames. With the above agencies, one qualifies with the "type" of firearm to be carried. "Type" has been interpreted as being either a revolver or a semi-auto, so one could qualify with a Glock 19 and legally carry a Colt 1911 .45, or a Model 19 and legally carry a Colt Detective Special.

 

[trooper2899]

Here is upstate New York we are required to take the course in a class room before we shoot, and every training class I attend is always full. Not too many departments offer HR-218 training for their retirees so our classes have LEOs from many different departments attending each training session. Our new (pro-gun) Sheriff has now allowed us to set up a pistol club through our department (starting in 2019) to be able to certify our retirees for HR-218, as well as being able to shoot more often to stay in practice for both retired and still active members of the department.

What county ?

 

[Old cop]

Here in VA we just shoot the same state course as full time officers, but are not required to sit through any classes on deadly force. I retired from a medium size agency, 350 + sworn, and the line is full for the entire day.