U of Pennsylvania says~~ 4X more likely to be shot if you have a gun

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This is the kind of article that really upsets me.
I live in Phila and they have tried to make their own gun laws in the past two years and the state denied them, Which I am glad of,
But I read this, And the first question I have is,
How many shot were LEGAL LAW ABIDING citizens and had a permit to carry and were not in a gang or were involved in a drug related transaction that went bad.
Penn study asks, protection or peril? Gun possession of questionable value in an assault | Science Blog
Penn study asks, protection or peril? Gun possession of questionable value in an assault

PHILADELPHIA -- In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.

The study was released online this month in the American Journal of Public Health, in advance of print publication in November 2009.

"This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous," notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. "Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?"

What Penn researchers found was alarming -- almost five Philadelphians were shot every day over the course of the study and about 1 of these 5 people died. The research team concluded that, although successful defensive gun uses are possible and do occur each year, the chances of success are low. People should rethink their possession of guns or, at least, understand that regular possession necessitates careful safety countermeasures, write the authors. Suggestions to the contrary, especially for urban residents who may see gun possession as a defense against a dangerous environment should be discussed and thoughtfully reconsidered.

A 2005 National Academy of Science report concluded that we continue to know very little about the impact of gun possession on homicide or the utility of guns for self-defense. Past studies had explored the relationship between homicides and having a gun in the home, purchasing a gun, or owning a gun. These studies, unlike the Penn study, did not address the risk or protection that having a gun might create for a person at the time of a shooting.

Penn researchers investigated the link between being shot in an assault and a person's possession of a gun at the time of the shooting. As identified by police and medical examiners, they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot.

These shooting cases were matched to Philadelphia residents who acted as the study's controls. To identify the controls, trained phone canvassers called random Philadelphians soon after a reported shooting and asked about their possession of a gun at the time of the shooting. These random Philadelphians had not been shot and had nothing to do with the shooting. This is the same approach that epidemiologists have historically used to establish links between such things as smoking and lung cancer or drinking and car crashes.

"The US has at least one gun for every adult," notes Branas. "Learning how to live healthy lives alongside guns will require more studies such as this one. This study should be the beginning of a better investment in gun injury research through various government and private agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control, which in the past have not been legally permitted to fund research 'designed to affect the passage of specific Federal, State, or local legislation intended to restrict or control the purchase or use of firearms.'"

This study was funded by the National Institutes of Health. The authors are also indebted to numerous dedicated individuals at the Philadelphia Police, Public Health, Fire, and Revenue Departments as well as DataStat Inc, who collaborated on the study.

Therese S. Richmond, PhD, CRNP, School of Nursing; Dennis P. Culhane, PhD, School of Social Policy; Thomas R. Ten Have, PhD, MPH, and Douglas J. Wiebe, PhD, both from the School of Medicine, are co-authors.

This release is available at: http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2009/09/gun-possession-safety/

PENN Medicine is a $3.6 billion enterprise dedicated to the related missions of medical education, biomedical research, and excellence in patient care. PENN Medicine consists of the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine (founded in 1765 as the nation's first medical school) and the University of Pennsylvania Health System.

Penn's School of Medicine is currently ranked #3 in the nation in U.S.News & World Report's survey of top research-oriented medical schools; and, according to the National Institutes of Health, received over $366 million in NIH grants (excluding contracts) in the 2008 fiscal year. Supporting 1,700 fulltime faculty and 700 students, the School of Medicine is recognized worldwide for its superior education and training of the next generation of physician-scientists and leaders of academic medicine.

The University of Pennsylvania Health System (UPHS) includes its flagship hospital, the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania, rated one of the nation's top ten "Honor Roll" hospitals by U.S.News & World Report; Pennsylvania Hospital, the nation's first hospital; and Penn Presbyterian Medical Center, named one of the nation's "100 Top Hospitals" for cardiovascular care by Thomson Reuters. In addition UPHS includes a primary-care provider network; a faculty practice plan; home care, hospice, and nursing home; three multispecialty satellite facilities; as well as the Penn Medicine at Rittenhouse campus, which offers comprehensive inpatient rehabilitation facilities and outpatient services in multiple specialties.

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September 30, 2009
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WTFControl group?
September 30, 2009 by Anonymous, 5 days 8 hours ago
Comment id: 45126

Comparing people who were shot, to random people who weren't shot within the area of a shots-fired report, and then forcing a correlation?

WHAT THE HELL IS THIS? HOW DOES THIS PASS FOR ACADEMIC RESEARCH?!

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they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot.

so... 94 percent who were shot did NOT have a gun...

and that makes having a gun more dangerous than not having one?
 
PHILADELPHIA -- In a first-of its-kind study, epidemiologists at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine found that, on average, guns did not protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault. The study estimated that people with a gun were 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not possessing a gun.

The study was released online this month in the American Journal of Public Health, in advance of print publication in November 2009.

"This study helps resolve the long-standing debate about whether guns are protective or perilous," notes study author Charles C. Branas, PhD, Associate Professor of Epidemiology. "Will possessing a firearm always safeguard against harm or will it promote a false sense of security?"

See "it's the guns!" Hard to argue with a "study". I guess police and military will be safer if they're unarmed too.
 
The other night the woman and I are getting ready to go out to a nice dinner, We live in a real nice area where we dont lock the car doors at night for the past 15 years, And never an issue.
Well she sees me tuck the old Model 37 in my waist band and says you wont need that where we're going, I replied, "If I did need it I would NOT be going there"
She was quiet...
Phila has some bad areas where I just dont ever go,
And the folks there seem to draw gun fire from eachother from their own doing!
Peter
I despise articles like these!
 
Eh, just another pencil pusher doing a study to show the facts they want to show so they can get a bit of notoriety and some limelight long enough to get some funding for their program.

How long are folks going to put up with these number fudging experts that do nothing except show numbers the way they want them to be seen?

they randomly selected 677 cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. Six percent of these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot.

Notice, that they didn't say which of these were criminal related (drug deal gone bad, etc.) or a legal homeowner/citizen/concealed carry member using it in self defense.

Sorry, this is...
choc-full-o-nuts.jpg
 
I've been to Philly a couple of times. I remember driving from 1 street through an adjoining neighborhood that we lovingly dubbed Beruit. Burned out cars on the street and zombie crackheads on the sidewalk. As has been pointed out, unless the shootings are divided into classes of criminal and law abiding citizen then it's useless. Hell, I could show you a study where you're more likely to die in a plane than anywhere else. All I have to do is pick fatal plane crashes and skew my results with those. "You see, my study shows if you're on a plane you'll die."
 
Lies, damn lies, probably due to chronic leftist mental disorder.Treatment indicated in this case is the reading of the works of Gary Kleck and John Lott three times a day, till the symptoms disappear.
Regards, Ray.
 
Know-it-all Dr. Nancy on MSNBC alluded to the report on her show yesterday and said that NRA folks should not e-mail her, just put away their guns. Of course I sent her an e-mail.
 
Know-it-all Dr. Nancy on MSNBC alluded to the report on her show yesterday and said that NRA folks should not e-mail her, just put away their guns. Of course I sent her an e-mail.

Chris Matthews didn't start an ultimate whine-fest again about people carrying loaded guns? :rolleyes:
 
Apologies Chad!
Never having attended either, I knew not of a difference?
The Annenberg folks however, are the same regardless of what school they involve themselves with.
 
Another interesting fact from the epidemiology studies...

Compared to the general population, you're more likely to die of heart disease if you are taking medication for a heart condition. So, should the conclusion be that heart medication kills you? And, if your doctor prescribes heart medication, you shouldn't take it?

As the saying goes... the numbers will tell you whatever you want to know, if you torture them long enough. Sounds like somebody waterboarded these numbers!
 
If Im ever shot it will not be for the lack of shooting back, U of P not withstanding!
 
you are 100% less likely to shoot back with no gun! It sounds like folks in the study area need to practice more so they can shoot before firing upon.
 
The basic premise that no one would be shot if no one had a gun is hard to refute. In fact it’s a truism. But it’s specious because the libs have utterly failed in their efforts to disarm the bad guys.
When I hear them talk it often seems to come down a powerful urge to disarm someone and since the criminals won’t cooperate, let’s do the good guys.

On a national scale unilateral disarmament is a progressive favorite. We set a good example by disarming and surely the global bad guys will be impressed and do the same. It has never worked in the past but lets try again, this time it may be diferent.
 
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