U.S. Armor

[jimmyj]

Were there U.S. Tanks in Vietnam prior to 1964 ?

 

[lihpster]

According to Google, no.

No, there were no U.S. tanks in Vietnam prior to 1964. The official combat commitment of U.S. ground forces, including tanks, began in 1965.
Key details about the deployment of tanks:

• Initial deployments: The first U.S. tank to arrive in Vietnam was an M48A3 Patton tank, which came ashore with the U.S. Marines on March 3, 1965.
• Prior involvement: Before 1965, American involvement in Vietnam was limited to an advisory role, providing military assistance and training to the South Vietnamese Army (ARVN). U.S. armored personnel carriers, like the M113, were supplied to the ARVN as early as 1962, but these were used by South Vietnamese forces, not American troops.
• Military outlook before 1965: Prior to the major escalation, many U.S. military strategists viewed Vietnam as an infantry war. U.S. armor schools in 1964, for example, did not even discuss Vietnam as a potential theater for armored units, focusing instead on conventional tank warfare scenarios in Europe.

 

[Onomea]

I'm no military historian, and am not a veteran, but.... I wonder how effective the use of tanks would have been for us in the Vietnam War...

I'm thinking if the primary enemy is the Viet Cong, guerrillas.... Hit and run, fade away, hiding among civilians, how useful is a tank?

There were some battles against the NVA, North Vietnamese Army regulars, I think. (Not many, I don't think, because that was playing to our strength.) Maybe tanks were useful then.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I am will comment.

 

[Greyman50]

M-551 Sheridans were used by several units. Not actually a tank in conventional terms but a light armored recon vehicle. 11 ACR used them as we supported them. Aluminum hull with a steel armor "clam shell" looking turret armed with a 152 mm gun. Originally designed to fire the Shileglagh missile and conventional shells. Problem with the shileglagh missile was firing it would knock the laser aiming system out and system had to be recalibrated after firing. Missiles were not used in Vietnam as they were usually anti armor..Here's a few pics, one on the road and couple inside turret.
The M-48 Patton tanks were heavy, real heavy and use kind of limited to terrain. M-48 were armed with 90 mm main gun. BTW, the flywheel of the engine of a M-48 weighed 900 pounds.

 

[lihpster]

I'm no military historian, and am not a veteran, but.... I wonder how effective the use of tanks would have been for us in the Vietnam War...

I'm thinking if the primary enemy is the Viet Cong, guerrillas.... Hit and run, fade away, hiding among civilians, how useful is a tank?

There were some battles against the NVA, North Vietnamese Army regulars, I think. (Not many, I don't think, because that was playing to our strength.) Maybe tanks were useful then.

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I am will comment.

The north had very few tanks and terrain being what it was, heavy tanks were limited in use. Lighter armored vehicles of different kinds were used. One that was reportedly very effective at close infantry support was the M50 Ontos. With 6 recoilless rifles it packed a pretty good punch. Load them all with beehive rounds and they were pretty devastating on troops without hard cover.

 

[Greyman50]

We gave the ARVNs many older US tanks (M-41s)and even some M-48s later. Tanks were used in many combat situations, defense of bunker lines and many search and destroy missions. Unless the vc or nva had several RPGs they had little defense against any armor. They did use many kinds of " mines" to destroy our armor and the ARVNs. We had the remains of a 551 that had run over a vc "mine" made from a 250 pound A/C bomb. Killed entire crew and hull was only about 2' tall.

 

[bgrafsr]

I worked at the GM tank plant next to the Cleveland Airport. M551's were built there. To check the guns laser sighting system, they would go outside the plant, aim the gun at the Ford Company's smoke stack, and run the tank in circles. The gun never waivered from the stack.
We had a proving ground off plant property where the 551's and M109's were driven around test tracks for reliability. I was a guard and worked at the proving grounds a lot. The workers there would let me drive the 551's and 109's on the test tracks, but had to stop if Union Reps came out to the facility.
There was a lake on the grounds too and they would float the vehicles in the lake as one of the tests. I would fish the lake and get good sized large mouthed bass and huge bluegills. I would let the main plant know I would be fishing, as we were suppose to check in every hour to let them know all was well.

 

[Rudi]

I spoke with a vet who was a tanker there. He said they were guarding a big Michelin rubber plantation. Every time the knocked over one of the trees, Uncle had to pay $100 to the company.

 

[Doriangray6]

Were there U.S. Tanks in Vietnam prior to 1964 ?

A few, but they weren't operated by US troops. Older model US tanks and other equipment were given to the French as part of our "quiet" support of their failed effort to take back control of the region.

 

[Retired W4]

An old high school buddy was on an M48 but he never talked much about it. I became friends with a guy in the 25th Mechanized (M113). Not exactly a good way to punch through the jungle.

 

[Rock185]

We trained on the M48A3, M60 and M551s. In '69 I was a M48A3 TC in the Central Highlands; Pleiku, An Khe, Highway 19 area, etc. Yes, we had to be careful where we moved during, and after monsoon. We did a lot of road security to keep highway 19 open, and mostly safe, during the hours of daylight. The platoon was tasked with making thunder runs every morning before we opened the roadway; right track just off the edge of the pavement to detonate any mines the VC might have planted overnight. At one time, my tank was the only one in the platoon that had not hit a mine. That came to an end one quiet afternoon, not even on a thunder run. Crew was ok, but a lot of damage to the tank, and an impressive crater. Got a new tank out of the deal. We also went on operations with the 4th. ID, and Korean ROKs. Many times at night, if not on some sort of operation, we would pull on to the end of a bridge, while another armor unit, M113 PC or another tank, secured the other end. It was mostly a quiet life, but sometimes things got pretty exciting. Got through the year, with only my loader wounded. Good guy, he survived and was back out there with me in about 3 weeks, IIRC....

BTW, the terrain was much more dense with trees, huge vines, bushes, all manner of vegetation than shown in the movie, "We Were Soldiers". This, along with punji stakes, fire ants, snakes, even saw a leopard one time. I have the greatest respect for the US infantry guys we worked with, and those ROKs..

 

[Greyman50]

This was a china T-54 the nva used in the battle of An Loc in 72. They had quite a few. The crew of this one bailed out when MARVN put the xenon spot light attached to a 106 mm recoiless rifle on it one night. They knew what was next and drove in a bomb crater. They bailed and left everything. Naturally the US advisors thought it was boobie trapped so our EOD guys checked it out with mirrors. We were going to pull it out with our M-88 but one of our guys got inside and had it running in a few minutes. He drove it up on one of our "dragon wagons" and think it ended up at APG. In the town the nva drove about 10 tanks in, US advisors got MARVN to shoot the first one and the last one with LAW rockets. The rest were picked off one at a time. One was shot many times with LAWs and after sitting in the sun for few days one had to almost have a gas mask to get close to it as the stench was overwhelming. One ended up sitting in front of ARVN HQ in Saigon.

 

[Retired W4]

This was a china T-54 the nva used in the battle of An Loc in 72. They had quite a few. The crew of this one bailed out when MARVN put the xenon spot light attached to a 106 mm recoiled rifle on it one night. They knew what was next and drove in a bomb crater. They bailed and left everything. Naturally the US advisors thought it was boobie trapped so our EOD guys checked it out with mirrors. We were going to pull it out with our M-88 but one of our guys got inside and had it running in a few minutes. He drove it up on one of our "dragon wagons" and think it ended up at APG. In the town the nva drove about 10 tanks in, US advisors got MARVN to shoot the first one and the last one with LAW rockets. The rest were picked off one at a time. One was shot many times with LAWs and after sitting in the sun for few days one had to almost have a gas mask to get close to it as the stench was overwhelming. One ended up sitting in front of ARVN HQ in Saigon.

I flew into An Loc many times (69-70) before the VC declared it the Viet Cong capital of SVN (1972). You guys spoiled their party!!

 

[Greyman50]

Yea tough situation. Our advisors directed MARVN how to defeat the nva. 3 were KIA before we went there. Since my Duce and a half was the only one with canvas was told I had to go get their bodies and take to Saigon. Thank God they decided to fly them out in a " Slick" and I didn't" go. When we went the nva had been handed their azzes and all we got was small arms fire. 81mm mortars and 122 rockets were the big threat, never knew when they might lite you up…We thanked the Air Force guys as without them it would have been much worse.

 

[pasound]

FMC reopened the old South Charleston Ordinance Plant and built M113's here in my town from 1962-1970. They built thousands of them, and it was not unusual to see flatbed train cars with 100 or more headed east to Norfolk VA to be shipped out on transports. After Vietnam, VW bought the factory and turned out sheet metal parts for VW Rabbits.

 

[LVSteve]

For those that subscribe to the Pluto streaming service, there is a show on their Military Channel about tanks in Vietnam. They certainly saw more action than I knew before the show.

 

[crows]

I have a couple of good books regarding armor action in Vietnam. Jungle Dragoons, and Black Horse Riders. Black Horse Riders is an exceptionally good read, I can't recommend it enough. An ACAV unit charging through the jungle to assist an ambushed unit pinned down and calling for help. Certainly plays hell with the notion that armor was useless in the jungle.

 

[Greyman50]

The " beehive" rounds from tank main guns were devastating on attacking Vic/ nva. Somewhere I have a couple of the flechettes that I had stuck in my hat over there.

 

[Retired W4]

I have a couple of good books regarding armor action in Vietnam. Jungle Dragoons, and Black Horse Riders. Black Horse Riders is an exceptionally good read, I can't recommend it enough. An ACAV unit charging through the jungle to assist an ambushed unit pinned down and calling for help. Certainly plays hell with the notion that armor was useless in the jungle.

The 11th ACR (Blackhorse) with their ACAV's, and other vehicles, kicked butt in War Zone C (Tay Ninh Provence) and Cambodia. Same AO that I worked.

 

[Drm50]

Dusters, M42s dual 40mm Bofors. 1/44th MR1, 4/60th MR2, and 3rd outfit I think Nickle Duce in the south. Maybe the ones they put on barges. Dusters were not considered armor. They were under ADA, Air Defense Artillery. I don't recall ever seeing an enemy aircraft.
I do remember seeing NVA tanks that had been busted open west of Kha Tum ( spelled wrong ) I'm not sure with what it occurred before we got there.