U. S. Express Guns (Smith & Wesson Revolvers)

[BMur]

Just an update to the Express Guns study: ( Very interesting study)

I've confirmed the U.S.X. marking found on the base left side frame of late Safety Hammer 38 Smith and Wesson revolvers as "Authentic This is via a REA ( Railroad Express Agency) letter of authentication dated 1961 that confirmed the U.S.X. marking as legit.

All U. S. Express guns that have been confirmed by REA ( that I have found) have the U.S. EX. stamp. So this does prove that the U.S.X. is an authentic stamp applied by the Express agency. This helps greatly to possibly authenticate earlier guns.

Also, a few new contracts have surfaced...All involving Smith and Wesson 32 Rimfires. The earliest cartridge revolver that has actually surfaced is the S&W Model 1 1/2 1st issue from 1865-1868...also continued into the 2nd issue revolver from 1868-1875... I think it is safe to say at this point in the study that Smith & Wesson was the first "Cartridge Express revolver".

It's also the only known 32 caliber to be actually an Express gun "on contract". In other words, "Several were ordered by the Express Agency".

All early contracts were with Major Distributors...Factory letters only confirm which distributor the gun was sent. The guns in volume were then purchased by the Express Agency.


Murph

 

[gmborkovic]

Murph, great study. I wonder how many I walked by at the shows in the last 60 years. Just not knowing. Thanks! Mike

 

[BMur]

Documenting Authentic examples

I'm in the same boat Mike,

I Was very suspicious of a lot of the Express marked guns but the only way to get past it is to do the research and confirm what is authentic....It also makes it much more difficult for those who would attempt to fake them. The altered guns become much more visible and easier to identify so the market stays strong on these very Historic Smith & Wesson examples.

The U. S. Express guns are difficult to fake since the original markings were "Deep" stamped and they used very unique die stamps....Very early letter and number designs that I have found to be unique in both size and early design, throughout their long standing contracts. Anything that doesn't meet those "UNIQUE" stamps must be considered altered without proof. In other words, "NOT ORIGINAL" to the gun. I've seen and document several that have more block like letters and numbers that have not be authenticated.

I would never consider investing in an Express gun unless the markings match those early die stamps and in the exact same location that is found on many examples documented.

I'm also seeing serial numbers in batches coming together that signify several large contracts. Especially with the safety hammer 38's.

*** You can actually use those photo's that I posted as a cheat sheet if you will to authenticating U.S.X and U.S. EX. marked guns...The dies should "MATCH" exactly what you see in those photo's or they are NOT PROVEN as authentic. They should be in the same location, same letters and numbers, same spacing, same grouping, same everything!!!

Special Note: I just received word from an old collecting buddy of mine that "Big Mitch" passed away... Great guy...

Murph

 

[gmborkovic]

Suspicious? Heck I never even stopped to look. You mean those old
rusty, nickel peeling, broken top breaks? My buds would have laughed
me right out of the show!

 

[merl67]

So hopefully the long standing practice of avoiding these guns like the plague will ending. I would imagine this would help other brands to be authenticated as well.

 

[BMur]

Authenticating

I agree Randy,
It helps a lot...I've seen Colt lightnings and Cop & Thugs with that USX that didn't look right to me but now they are more believable. The Cop & Thugs have some Factory archived information that backs them up though...A large order was placed and examples found are within that serial number range. All marked exactly the same. (350 guns!) At least all that I have seen so far.

The more research I perform on these the more I realize that there were many Major Distributors involved with suppling the Express Companies all over the country. It wasn't just Distributors in New York, Boston, and Chicago....They were also in Kentucky, San Francisco, Missouri, Ohio....Heck, all over the States.... I have no idea how many agents were involved but there were a few.

The one rock solid denominator are the markings though...They are sometimes placed differently....Sometimes on the barrel, sometimes on the lower frame but always the same die stamps. Along with the same pattern...In other words, you find more than one marked that way... A lot more than one. Any unique or unusual markings are not standard with express guns. I would purchase only guns having "Standard, known, proven, markings". Anything else would be very difficult to prove authentic in my opinion. The smallest order that I documented was 6 guns (factory letter)....Never 1 gun.. The more common number being a minimum of 60 guns on one order. The highest number I have documented (factory letter) was 625 guns in one shipment.

I think most early Express guns will ultimately pattern like the Schofields though....It depended on where they were sent by the purchasing agent. Which suggests that they were actually marked upon receipt at the final destination. I have enough evidence that strongly supports that position.


Murph

 

[mmaher94087]

I met "Big Mitch" at many shows and dealt with him at a few. I'm sorry to hear of his passing. RIP Mitch Luksich.

 

[BMur]

More detailed information

Just for those who are wanting to include an Express gun in their collection? Specifically and only a U.S. Express gun?

Below are the only 3 "proven" authentic markings...Representing 3 separate contracts...Very large contracts...Previous researchers proved that between serial numbers 89249-89717 of the 3rd model included several hundred Express guns?

Well, the data from my research has found that between serial 40,000 (model 2) circa 1890 to 209,000 serial number 4th model circa 1906/07...you can find several thousand "Express" guns that have one of the 3 markings photo'd below.

Murph

 

[Books]

So where do the side plated marked examples fall?

Books

 

[BMur]

4th Contract?

Morning Books,

That's a fake!........Just kidding,

I actually have your gun in my survey already...You've posted it before so I documented it...I have a total of 3 guns stamped like yours documented....Basically, that's not enough to confirm the contract...I believe it's right but I just can't confirm it yet...I need more information and something rock solid like a REA certified letter on one of them to back it up. Still looking...

I do have some supporting info that strongly suggests that U.S.Express Co. did stamp that area of the frame with the U.S.X. stamp....The Cop & Thug contract is seen with that same stamp on the rear frame....Problem being that I can't confirm that contract either...Strong evidence supporting it though... Work in progress....

As soon as the information comes to light I will post it for you. More than likely it was sent South...That's my guess right now....Those guns seem to always have very unique markings since the contracts were much smaller. The larger contracts are always easier to confirm...That's just where I'm at right now.. Ironing out the easy stuff.

Question for you:....Did you letter your gun? If so, what distributor was it sent to?? All the Cop & Thugs so far were sent to Hartley and Graham...New York but I don't have enough of them documented. They are falling in the same serial number range and do letter to a large shipment...So the pieces are fitting so far. It was a late shipment in 1891...That's basically 5 years after the gun was discontinued by the Colt Factory so they must have gotten a bulk deal from Colt....That is documented with many late guns....Sold off at a discount price in bulk... The Schofield was one such gun.. The Express Companies often purchased guns at a discount price in bulk....Thrifty shoppers I guess..

Murph

 

[Books]

The one pictured letters as going to M. W. Robinson on March 9, 1901.

Books

 

[BMur]

M. Robinson

Books,

Thanks for posting that letter.

The S&W 38 Safety hammer that is the original post gun also lettered to M. Robinson in 1905 and obviously has different "positioned" stamps on the gun. This is only partially why I don't believe the Distributor marked all these U.S. Express guns. Distributor marked guns are very elegantly done. More professionally done. Not unlike the Schofield contract, often the Express Company actually marked the guns in bulk and in a hurry. Especially by 1901? It was like clockwork by then. What about the Hartley and Graham guns, and Simmons hardware guns, and Chicago shipped guns that are marked in the exact same way with the exact same die stamps? How did that happen?? I know......the Express Company marked them...

From all the various contracts that I have studied what typically happened is the Express Agent would receive the guns in bulk often shipped first to a major distributor and the Agent would then distribute the gun to the various coverage areas ,or actually have the Distributor send the guns to a remote office, or on later contracts? The Agent would actually have the Factory ship the bulk order to another office in say Chicago and bypass the New York Distributor all together. Again, never just one gun...

Colt letters detail and document that fact. The factory and distributor were often directed by the Purchasing Agent who only paid for that bulk shipment and had them ship the guns where needed to either another Express office or a known and proven Distributor that delt with Express Guns at the location that the guns were needed. Simple as that. As time went on the process became very organized and markings by either the Distributor or the factory were also very neat and elegant....Only Express marked guns are goofy and obviously individually number and letter hand stamped.

I'm disappointed that the letter you obtained does not mention "how many" guns were in the shipment. That piece of information is kinda huge! and needed for Express Gun research. Was it 12? 50? 200?....Need to know that... That's how we tie them in together with the same contract order. It also definitely helps huge to verify Express markings!!!

Early American Express Contracts were elegantly engraved by the Distributor and actually had property numbers that signified a sequential number of the actual contract from say 1-2000 guns in said contract...Example: Am. Ex. Co. 495 Those were just prior to direct factory ordering and Factory marking on the backstrap. This at the specific request of the Express Agent that first took place in the early to mid 1890's and also specified the specific Property stamps desired. That is proven by earlier elegantly engraved Distributor marked guns. It's exactly the same with Colt Lightnings also..."EXACTLY" the same.

Not all Express Companies ordered contracts directly from the Factory, nor did they have the Distributor mark the guns...Each Express company was Unique in that way.

Especially due to the various markings found in the survey. That includes Wells Fargo property stamps to say, San Francisco that were directly ordered from the factory, not listed as factory marked, and have unique stamps that follow no factory stamped pattern....Obviously those were in fact marked by Wells Fargo upon receipt.

Pacific Express Co. also clearly marked their guns almost a duplicate of the U.S. Express guns, as did Adams Express Co with a very neat custom property stamp but they purchased Iver Johnsons so they don't count..(LOL) So there was quite a variance in the patterns that I will probably never actually iron out.

One thing about Distributors though. They sold items that were neat and trimmed and marked them the same way. Very uniformed. The Express Company marked guns are basically a mess but also clearly help to identify specific contracts. So that's a good thing.


Murph

 

[BMur]

Distributor marked guns

One last comment about Distributor marked Express guns?

Hartley and Graham is documented in my survey notes as "Elegantly" engraving Smith and Wesson revolvers on the Back strap by 1890 with Property stamps and Property numbers for American Express Co. and yet the U.S. Express Guns shipped to Hartley and Graham are still found poorly hand stamped in 1891...Proven by factory shipping records...So just more proof that the U.S. Express Co. was actually hand stamping their guns ordered from the Distributor as late as 1907! Same goes with Pacific Express Co.

See photo of a Hartley and Graham engraved Am.Ex.Co gun..
You can clearly see the difference between a hand stamped U.S. Express gun.

This was also the last documented Express contract where the distributor actually marked the guns...After this it was either the Express company or the "Factory" that marked the guns.

Murph

 

[jayn.32]

Ialso have a usx marked Safety Hammerless. u.s.x. is marked under the cylinder l.s. and the number on the side plate. those numbers look just like those in the picture. mine also same with nice walnut stocks, very comfortable for shooting. serial is 167286 same as usx no. Arewood service stocks unusual?

 

[BMur]

Wood stocks?

Thanks for posting that info jayn.32,
Can you please post a few photos?

Yes, wood stocks are rare on U.S.Express Guns. The vast majority are black hard rubber standard.

Even on Colts. All in my survey are hard rubber except for 2 Single Action Army 45’s that I personally do not believe are legit. The markings are block letters that fit no patterns found in this survey.

Murph

 

[jayn.32]

stocks

I am not savvy about posting pics but i am planning to go to Tulsa and i will bring it along for you to look at. They are smooth, well made and fitted. Hope to see you there.

 

[lou buccasso]

Just an update to the Express Guns study: ( Very interesting study)

I've confirmed the U.S.X. marking found on the base left side frame of late Safety Hammer 38 Smith and Wesson revolvers as "Authentic This is via a REA ( Railroad Express Agency) letter of authentication dated 1961 that confirmed the U.S.X. marking as legit.

All U. S. Express guns that have been confirmed by REA ( that I have found) have the U.S. EX. stamp. So this does prove that the U.S.X. is an authentic stamp applied by the Express agency. This helps greatly to possibly authenticate earlier guns.

Also, a few new contracts have surfaced...All involving Smith and Wesson 32 Rimfires. The earliest cartridge revolver that has actually surfaced is the S&W Model 1 1/2 1st issue from 1865-1868...also continued into the 2nd issue revolver from 1868-1875... I think it is safe to say at this point in the study that Smith & Wesson was the first "Cartridge Express revolver".

It's also the only known 32 caliber to be actually an Express gun "on contract". In other words, "Several were ordered by the Express Agency".

All early contracts were with Major Distributors...Factory letters only confirm which distributor the gun was sent. The guns in volume were then purchased by the Express Agency.


Murph

To BMur,
I am doing research on a Remington model 1890 ssa 44-40. What compelled me to purchase the gun were the letters stamped on the butt end of the grip strap. all capital block style antique letters. ( US EXP ). the gun was produced around 1904 serial number 1178.
some guys have told me to contact United States Express Trucking, they didn't exist then. Others said maybe it stands for us expert marksman in the military and was awarded to a person. it may be a fake express con job, but to me the stamping matches the patina and era of the gun pretty well. has there been any info on issuing a Remington handgun to an agent. I live near Ohio, Pa, and New York areas.
any help would be grateful. My name is Lou,

 

[lou buccasso]

To BMur,
I am doing research on a Remington model 1890 ssa 44-40. What compelled me to purchase the gun were the letters stamped on the butt end of the grip strap. all capital block style antique letters. ( US EXP ). the gun was produced around 1904 serial number 1178.
some guys have told me to contact United States Express Trucking, they didn't exist then. Others said maybe it stands for us expert marksman in the military and was awarded to a person. it may be a fake express con job, but to me the stamping matches the patina and era of the gun pretty well. has there been any info on issuing a Remington handgun to an agent. I live near Ohio, Pa, and New York areas.
any help would be grateful. My name is Lou,

 

[BMur]

Hi Lou,
Please post a few photos of the markings on the Remington. As clear as possible. Remingtons are proven in my survey to have been Express Guns. I have documented very early contracts with American Express.
There are no records remaining regarding the Express Guns. The last Express Company that had possession of all the records was The Railway Express Agency until 1975 when they went bankrupt. No records have been located since.
Remington was a very well documented provider of Express guns. Especially shotguns.
I absolutely need to see the markings to comment further.

Murph

 

[iby]

Lou.
The model 1890 was produced 1890-1896
None in 1904
Total production 2020