UMC or WWB?

[Hovnnes]

I've been shooting reasonably priced ammo---Remington UMC and Winchester USA("white box") and I've had a few discussions with others about which one to spend money on. In the calibers I shoot, 45 ACP, 44 Mag and 38 Spl I find that WWB is cleaner shooting and more accurate, but friends who shoot 9 Parabellum, 357 Mag, and 380 swear by UMC.
Does Winchester just make some calibers "better" than Remington and vice versa? What is your experience? How do both UMC and WWB compare to imported budget brands like Sellier & Bellot?

 

[Bomberman]

White meat or dark meat...it's all chicken. It's just a matter of personal preference. Shoot what feels good to you.

 

[Hovnnes]

White meat or dark meat...it's all chicken. It's just a matter of personal preference. Shoot what feels good to you.

My objection to the UMC calibers I've shot is crud.It is tenacious stuff! My parabellum shooting acquiantence remarks how clean UMC is. This leads me to think the powders used by both UMC and USA are substantially different even in the same calibers & performance range (UMC and USA loadings are nearly identical in performance, at least in the specs)
I was wondering if anyone else noticed this? OR if some weapons just shoot dirtier than others?

 

[JohnnieB]

White meat or dark meat...it's all chicken. It's just a matter of personal preference. Shoot what feels good to you.

+1 with an addendum.
You have to take your gun's preferences into consideration also. They are all individuals and each has their own likes and dislikes when it comes to ammo.

Some S&B, Fiocchi, Prvi Partizan and other ammo made outside the USofA are loaded to Europen specs and are a bit hotter than ammo loaded to SAAMI specs,
But other than that they go bang just as well as UMC and WWB do.

If you really want accurate, clean, reliable and inexpensive ammo - Reload.

 

[JohnnieB]

I was wondering if anyone else noticed this? OR if some weapons just shoot dirtier than others?

I've got a M-15 (.38spl) and a M-19 (.357mag) and the M-19 ends up "dirtier" when I shoot the same ammo and number of rounds through them. I'm not well versed in internal ballistics, but I attribute it to the bullet of a .38spl cartridge in the M-19 having about an 1/8" of travel before it gets to the cylinder throat, thereby lowering pressure slightly and getting a less complete powder burn.

If this is true, emphasis on the "if", variations in the diameters of the throat, forcing cone, barrel, etc. might effect how completely the powder is burnt and might vary from gun to gun, so some like model guns will be dirtier than others.

Hopefully someone with more knowledge on the subject will chime in and educate us.

 

[Hovnnes]

+1 with an addendum.
You have to take your gun's preferences into consideration also. They are all individuals and each has their own likes and dislikes when it comes to ammo.

Some S&B, Fiocchi, Prvi Partizan and other ammo made outside the USofA are loaded to Europen specs and are a bit hotter than ammo loaded to SAAMI specs,
But other than that they go bang just as well as UMC and WWB do.

If you really want accurate, clean, reliable and inexpensive ammo - Reload.

WWB and UMC emptys is how I get my brass

 

[JohnnieB]

WWB and UMC emptys is how I get my brass

I get Starline brass by buying "New" ammo from Georgia Arms.
If it doesn't say "New" in the description, it'll be remanufactured from mixed used brass. If it does it'll be new Starline.

Don't know what WWB and UMC are selling for at Wally-World these days, but Georgia Arms sells "New" .38spl 158gr LSWC @ $270/1K, 230gr FMJ .45acp @ $360/1K and 240gr LSWC 44mag @ $410/1K. That works out to $13.50, $18.00 and $20.50 per box of 50 respectively, but you have to pay for shipping.

I reload mostly lead and I usually send a few FMJs downrange at the end of a range session, but I latched onto some locally manufactured FMJ at a very good price in the calibers I shoot, so I won't be buying any from Wally-World anytime soon.

 

[crofoot629]

White meat or dark meat...it's all chicken. It's just a matter of personal preference. Shoot what feels good to you.

Yea, but some companies do some things better than others.

Between the two I choose Winchester. I’m certain Remington makes very good ammo too.
Federal is also an easy name to trust for ammo.

When’s the last time you saw Remington get a police or military contract for ammo? I may be all wet, but just my 2 cents worth.

Its always been my understanding that Winchester built the IMI ammo factory. Some companies just excel at certain things.

Emory

 

[Hovnnes]

Yea, but some companies do some things better than others.

Between the two I choose Winchester. I’m certain Remington makes very good ammo too.
Federal is also an easy name to trust for ammo.

When’s the last time you saw Remington get a police or military contract for ammo? I may be all wet, but just my 2 cents worth.

Its always been my understanding that Winchester built the IMI ammo factory. Some companies just excel at certain things.

Emory

The last time I cycled through the Academy I heard the instructors strongly suggest the new students buy Winchester ammo for the course.

BUT recently I've noticed several LEOs at the range shooting Remington .40 Golden Sabres.

OTOH, somewhere I've got tucked away six boxes of Winchester-Western 38 Spl HBWC which the local Air Guard APs traded to the then Range Officer for his highly respected handloads. This was for a qualification shoot (they were packing Rugers back then) and the kindly RO gave the rounds to yours truly, a rookie at the time

 

[alwslate]

I think you need a chronograph. I go more by velocity and consistancy
rather than cleanliness. Companies do seem to do better with some
calibers than others. In .25 acp I prefer WWB, .380 UMC, .32 acp S&B
gets the nod but their .25s are worthless squibs in my opinion. You
really just need to test loads in your guns.