Unfavorable opinion of Smith and Wessons

[ColbyBruce]

n4zov, the Glock in the photo exploded. The reason it exploded is simple, someone loaded it then pulled the trigger. Glocks do this a bunch. Google "Glock KB", "Glock Ka-boom", "Glock phase three malfunction" and you will have an eye opening experience.

Suposedly, Glocks do not support the rear of a cartridge case very well. Reloads are suspect in these circumstances. I have been in an indoor range when this happened once. It was a brand new Glock 22 .40 S&W shooting factory hardball ammo.

I have shot many Glocks, only owned one, a Gen. 1 #17.

 

[FennRx]

as another poster commented, 1 bad experience prolly tainted the instructors opinion. the same can be said about a lot of other products....i know this is true with gibson guitars for example.

i own a sigma and know some people who own them (as well as guy here and on other forums), and they definitely seem to perform as well if not better than their glock counterparts.

 

[RufusG]

Originally posted by hfl73:
I am somewhat new to handguns and over the past year I purchased a 3913 and 5926 and have enjoyed shooting them regularly. I completed a Defensive Pistol Seminar today at my local gun club and at the end of class the instructor was commenting on the quality of handguns many of the students had (mostly Glocks). He said that Smith and Wesson semiautos were not very good because they fell apart and weren't well made. Then praised how great Glocks were. I am kind of taken back by this because during the firing phase of the course my 3913 performed as well as any of the Glocks on the firing line. I am not sure I would take another class offered by this instructor based on this unfavorable opinion of my handgun. Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

If I paid money to be instructed, and it turned out I was "instructed" by a dumbass I would be asking for my money back.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by RufusG:
If I paid money to be instructed, and it turned out I was "instructed" by a dumbass I would be asking for my money back.

It may be that the rest of his instruction was perfectly fine. Only hfl73 knows since none of the rest of us were there.

Claiming this instructor was an "idiot" as was done earlier in the thread, or a "dumbass" as was done more recently, is essentially doing the same thing that this instructor did in regards to S&W handguns. One biased, wrong comment does not necessarily make the guy wrong on everything else, just like one "lemon" off the S&W assembly line doesn't make all S&W pistols junk. It may just be the guy just has a chip on his shoulder regarding S&W handguns for one reason or another.

 

[walkin' trails]

I grew up with S&W revolvers, but have never been much of a fan of their autos until acquirng my M&P. During the 1980s and early 90s, federal law enforcement agencies that acquired S&W autos and suffered reliability issues with the 9mm pistols. On the other hand, I know of one local department in my area that issued the 4026 for a number of years with good results. I've fired that gun and found it to be pretty accurate. Officers, however, told me that S&W had stopped making that model, and that forced them to adopt a new pistol. They went with the Sigma in 40. That was short lived.

I have carried and shot Glocks for over 20 years now, have worked for two agencies that had either allowed or issued Glocks, and never seen them self destruct. I've had springs break while firing, but that is it (the lesson there is to always carry a back-up gun). Poor quality reloads, double charged factory ammo, or squib loads obstructing barrels will cause any quality pistol to KB if the conditions are right.

As an instructor, I have learned that one particular gun does not fit all hands. The shooter, if allowed to by policy, should seek out the platform that he/she is most comfortable with.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by walkin' trails:
As an instructor, I have learned that one particular gun does not fit all hands. The shooter, if allowed to by policy, should seek out the platform that he/she is most comfortable with.

Well said, walkin' trails. And one more thing I have learned as an instructor is you don't make blanket statements such as "Smith and Wesson semiautos are not very good because they fall apart and aren't well made". Being how even the most novice gun enthusiast will easily recognize this as an untrue statement, it damages your credibility on everything else you talk about in your class, and credibility is everything for an instructor.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by hfl73: Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

Personally and professionally I think your instructor(and I use the term loosely) was way out of line by making the comments he did unless your or any other firearm "On the line" had repeated failures of one kind or another. Certainly, most Instructors will have their own opinions about certain firearms but unless this was a "Glocks ONLY" class then he should kept his "opinions" to himself.

OKay, I carry Glocks as my personal choice as Defensive sidearms but have and would again feel "Warm & Fuzzy" carrying any number of Smiths for the same purpose. But, I also put any sidearm I "carry" through my own testing process before I become comfortable with them and many, many Smiths have made it through this process with flying colors.

I suspect that since Smith has been in the business for over 150 Years and they are still going strong(relatively speaking) they must have been doing something right all these Years. Yes, Smith has had quality problems but then so have the Glocks; as have every other gun Company. Some have more problems than others and those problems can and will kill a Company quicker than anything else.

If you feel comfortable with your Smiths then stick with them. If you don't feel comfortable with the instructor then find another one.

 

[Hot Toddy]

Hey Folks!
Take advantage of the situation!! Completely agree with those having the negative opinion of S&W and then offer them low amount of cash for their S&W!! I agree with those who are folish enough to disparage or beloved Smiths then after I make the offer and they ALWAYS refuse simply say, I guess they are much better than you figured.
The gun store I frequent ( Only for the gunsmith, never bought a gun there, too proud of their stuff) always raggs on me when I bring a S&W in.
Any yet every one of theirs regardless of condition starts at $500 and goes up from there.
I guess its about putting your money where your mouth is.
However I always tell people who have 10mm S&W for sale they are horrible and they should let me "Save" them and take them off their hands!! LOL!!
Let them talk and drive the prices down. Dont let anyone in on our secret!!
Take care and God Bless...HT

 

[bkp3gen]

For what it's worth......

I have been a handgun gun owner for 40 years and have owned many brands. I started out with S&W revolvers and graduated to semi-autos. The brands I have owned have been S&W, Beretta, Ruger, Colt, Glock, CZ, Magnum Research, etc. No matter what brand I have owned, at the time of purchase I thought it was a good pistol or I wouldn't have paid the hard earned money. When you make the purchase, it is human nature to "support" that purchase. This is true in many purchases we all make. One person's opinion is just that, his/her opinion. Each and every gun I have purchased was a good buy in my opinion. As I shot and got used to the gun it was then that I formed the opinion of whether to keep it or not. Each person has a reason for owning a handgun....ie: personal protection, collecting, hunting, range use or many other reason that are personal to each of us.

Whatever brand you own is fine as long as it suits your needs. I have taken everyone's opinion of what I own with a grain of salt and leave it at that. I don't care what brand you buy, it is going to be decently made. Standards are too tight to turn out an inferior handgun in today's times as long as you are buying a reputable name.

I have chosen S&W's to be the main name in my safe because their product is varied enough to suit my needs. I like some of the Smith semi-auto's but won't buy some of their other products. It is a personal choice.

Many people want you to buy "just like they did" to help justify their purchase. Many instructors will also try to steer people toward certain guns simply for the reasons we have all read in this thread. One of the instructors I have encountered was also very high on Glock. We talked after the particular class I was taking and he said it was because 1. It was such a simple gun to own and operate and 2. Many people are new to gun ownership it is imperative they understand what makes it go bang. He told me he loathes advocating any brand but Glock seems to be the one that people can most readily understand. He also said the other brands like S&W, Ruger and Beretta are machine work marvels and it takes a seasoned owner to have the understanding to operate and maintain them properly.

I guess the purpose of this long post if to tell you that it doesn't matter what pistol you buy as long as you can shoot it properly, safely and you can maintain this weapon and keep it in proper firing condition.

 

[RufusG]

Originally posted by cshoff:
Claiming this instructor was an "idiot" as was done earlier in the thread, or a "dumbass" as was done more recently, is essentially doing the same thing that this instructor did in regards to S&W handguns. One biased, wrong comment does not necessarily make the guy wrong on everything else,

Does not necessarily make him wrong on everything else but sure makes him suspect. If he's charging money to be considered an expert, he has an obligation to know what he's talking about. Obviously he does not. He's not being paid to provide somewhat correct information, or 78% good dope. If you are going to insult someone's gun to their face it would be nice if you had some actual facts to back it up. His pontificating calls into question his preparation for the rest of the presentation.

 

[Grayfox]

There are Glock fans and Glock snobs. The snobs are the ones who believe that the fantastic plastic is the greatest gun on earth and go to great efforts to put down any other brand.
While every brand has its fans and detractors, for some reason Glock snobs seem to be the most rabid of the bunch.
The instructor sounds like a snob to me.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by RufusG:

Originally posted by cshoff:
Claiming this instructor was an "idiot" as was done earlier in the thread, or a "dumbass" as was done more recently, is essentially doing the same thing that this instructor did in regards to S&W handguns. One biased, wrong comment does not necessarily make the guy wrong on everything else,

Does not necessarily make him wrong on everything else but sure makes him suspect. If he's charging money to be considered an expert, he has an obligation to know what he's talking about. Obviously he does not. He's not being paid to provide somewhat correct information, or 78% good dope. If you are going to insult someone's gun to their face it would be nice if you had some actual facts to back it up. His pontificating calls into question his preparation for the rest of the presentation.

With that, I would pretty much agree. The heck of it is, this instructor may have done a great job and provided great information up until the point where he let his own opinion enter the picture. It was certainly a mistake on his part, at the very least.

 

[RufusG]

this instructor may have done a great job and provided great information up until the point where he let his own opinion enter the picture.

You are correct and as you said only the OP has an idea about that.

 

[martialcomp]

My 2 cents is that Glock's won't handle casing failures.

More times than not, the frame cracks when there is a casing failure with a round of ammo.

Lucky for Glock, casing failures are few and far between.

Glocks are ugly but they do the job. Thousands of police officers use them so they can't be too bad.

I tend to be averse to polymer framed firearms but if I saw a compact Glock or S&W for a good price, I might pick one up anyway.

As far as the instructor's opinion, I would think his opinion would be different of he had the opportunity to shoot a PC 5906, a Shorty 9, Recon 9, Shorty 40, etc.

 

[hfl73]

When I posted this, I knew there would be many responses in favor of Smith and Wesson Semi's. I have learned that many of us are loyal to our handguns whatever they are. As with all manufactured products there are bound to be some that leave the factory and don't operate properly.
Being new to handguns I was concerned that I bought something that had a reputation for poor quality. Many of you have assured me that is not true as I suspected before this instructor gave his opinion. I took the class to learn how to become a better shooter and to better understand the limitations of using a handgun within the confines of the law. For the most part the class met those objectives. Although I feel the delivery of the instruction would have been better if I didn't have to listen to a critical review of my handgun compared to Glocks as well as a 10 minute political commentary, at the beginning of class(I believe we have forums and talk radio for that). I was also disappointed that we didn't get some type of class evaluation form to fill out so the instructor could use the feed back to improve future classes. It would have given me a chance to let him know he should be aware that his gun bias and politics aren't shared by all. I don't plan on taking anymore classes from him in the future.

 

[Jim H]

Originally posted by hfl73:
...I don't plan on taking anymore classes from him in the future.

Sometimes when you ignore the advertising you find that the program itself is pretty good.

Best of luck as you gain experience.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Glock is a very successful gun company, but overall they have nothing on S&W. Your instructor is entitled to his opinion, and you are entitled to yours. He doesn't sell Glocks on the side does he? Unfortunately, many firearm instructors seemingly cannot help peppering a captive audience with plugs for stuff that they sell.

 

[andyo5]

In view of your overall experience with the instructor, perhaps your next class should be with someone else (preferably NRA certified).
I think that cops tend to treat their guns as appliances, which is what they really are if you are a cop as opposed to an enthusiast or collector. Glock polymer frames will not rust or wear in the same way as blued finishes or satin stainless. Their slide finish is matt and very durable. The pistol is not beautiful to start with, so there is no need to be concerned about appearance wear. This is probably a benefit to police officers.
Smiths are very well designed and made, but there are exceptions that leave the factory sometimes. S&W's lifetime repair policy covers you in that event and they stand by their warranty. I have had personal experience with them.

 

[Swabby]

I can't help but wonder if your instructor ever shot a new M&P. How could anyone that knows anything about handguns love a Glock, but not even like the M&P a little? I sold a lot of handguns in the past, Glocks and Smiths. I never had a single one that came back in pieces. I think you're good with your choices. Always take general statements like that with a grain of salt.

 

[M29since14]

I was also disappointed that we didn't get some type of class evaluation form to fill out so the instructor could use the feed back to improve future classes. It would have given me a chance to let him know he should be aware that his gun bias and politics aren't shared by all. I don't plan on taking anymore classes from him in the future.

HF - Don't take this the wrong way. It is entirely possible your instructor wasn't interested in your opinions.

Like a lot who have commented here, I have toyed with many, many handguns in the last 40+ years. I think your 3913 is a terrific gun. My own 3913 shoots like a target pistol. If it was all I had, I wouldn't spend much time worrying.