Unfavorable opinion of Smith and Wessons

[hfl73]

I am somewhat new to handguns and over the past year I purchased a 3913 and 5926 and have enjoyed shooting them regularly. I completed a Defensive Pistol Seminar today at my local gun club and at the end of class the instructor was commenting on the quality of handguns many of the students had (mostly Glocks). He said that Smith and Wesson semiautos were not very good because they fell apart and weren't well made. Then praised how great Glocks were. I am kind of taken back by this because during the firing phase of the course my 3913 performed as well as any of the Glocks on the firing line. I am not sure I would take another class offered by this instructor based on this unfavorable opinion of my handgun. Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

 

[hfl73]

I am somewhat new to handguns and over the past year I purchased a 3913 and 5926 and have enjoyed shooting them regularly. I completed a Defensive Pistol Seminar today at my local gun club and at the end of class the instructor was commenting on the quality of handguns many of the students had (mostly Glocks). He said that Smith and Wesson semiautos were not very good because they fell apart and weren't well made. Then praised how great Glocks were. I am kind of taken back by this because during the firing phase of the course my 3913 performed as well as any of the Glocks on the firing line. I am not sure I would take another class offered by this instructor based on this unfavorable opinion of my handgun. Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

 

[Tslepebull]

I think you answered your own question. Your Smith shot as well as the Glocks. What else do you need to know.

 

[bad_man_ one]

That's a very old mindset.
The first generation's had allot of quality issues and somewhere back when Bangor Punta owned them, there were allot of bad decisions being made about quality also, could have been during that same time period.
Bangor Punta bought the company from the Wesson family in 1965. In Jan 1984 the Lear Siegler Corp. purchased Bangor Punta (along with S&W). In Dec 1986 Lear Siegler was sold to Forstmann Little. Forstmann split off S&W and sold it shortly thereafter to Thompkins. From http://www.smith-wesson.com/we...1504&sectionId=10002
I am an Aerospace Manufacturing Engineer and have taken the tours in both of the manufacturing facilities and that being said, I will say that I think that they are some of the finest handguns being produced.
There Customer Service is SECOND TO NONE.
I've had a Glock 20 - 10mm and had issues with it, got rid of it.
I own quite a variety and quite a few firearms and my Smiths are among the finest ever.
Regards,
BM1

 

[SW CQB 45]

you have to take what they say and sometimes swallow it.

dont let this discourage you. take the good from each instructor and throw away the bad.

he probably had one bad experience with SW and now they are all bad.

I dont talk trash about guns anymore (I used to). I just talk about experiences and tell those, if that's what you want, get it, train with it so in a stressful situation, you are not reading the instructions when things go bad.

 

[Gamer]

NO mistake buying a S&W IMO. I think some people love whatever they own, a Glock or whatever else it might be and some folks tend to bash other guns. Maybe the guy had a bad experience and he's bitter

Personally, I own several Smith's, a couple of Kahr's, a Colt even and I LOVE them all....

I do have a 5904 I've owned since 89 and it still shoots like a dream. In a round about way I'm trying to say you'll have to decide the quality of S&W's for yourself. But, they've been good to me and they're so pretty.

Good luck!

 

[ColbyBruce]

Your instructor was absolutely correct...you get more bang for your buck with a Glock,

.

 

[cobra44]

At a local gun show last weekend, I happened over to the Glock armorer that was there, as my brother wanted me to ask him about the safeties that are available now for Glocks.
As I walked up I heard the armorer talking to a customer telling him that the Glock line of firearms are the most dependable, best built firearm that were ever made. Of course you get the same from the Kimber reps.
I will keep my Smiths.

 

[n4zov]

Well, I have to ask. What happened to the Glock in the photo?

 

[cshoff]

You know what they say about opinions. Of course, the truth is, if S&W semi-auto's were "junk" and "fell apart", there wouldn't be millions of armed citizens and thousands of LEO's that stake their lives on them every day.

My guess is this instructor either had bad luck with one personally, or had a buddy that had bad luck with one. I've personally had pretty bad luck with a Keltec AT380; lot's of FTE's and what not. That doesn't make every single one of them "junk", and there are plenty of people out there that just love those little guns.

 

[Big Lou]

I love Glocks. I keep two of them in my truck. I use them to block the rear wheels when I park a steep hill!

 

[Ridgway]

Originally posted by cobra44:
At a local gun show last weekend, I happened over to the Glock armorer that was there, as my brother wanted me to ask him about the safeties that are available now for Glocks.
As I walked up I heard the armorer talking to a customer telling him that the Glock line of firearms are the most dependable, best built firearm that were ever made. Of course you get the same from the Kimber reps.
I will keep my Smiths.

Ponder this: If Glocks are so good, why are there Glock armorers? Kind of like a mechanic who says "Fords (or Chevy) are the best most reliable trucks out there. They are all I will fix."

When I took the NRA Smith revolver armorers course at a gunsmithing school here in OK, the instructor/head of the gunsmithing school fielded a lot of questions towards the end concerning all types of firearms. Someone asked him what was the best autoloading shotgun on the market, and he went on forever about how great Remingtons were and how the Italians, notably Beretta and Benelli, cobbled together shotguns of questionable engineering and even worse metalurgy ("nothing in them is ever properly hardened"). It is important to note that he owned a gunshop that was the regional Remington authorized factory service center. In other words, for several years he made a hell of a lot of money by repairing Remington 1100's. Benelli and Beretta don't have regional service centers, just their U.S. headquarters in Maryland, and I'm sure this pissed him off to no end.

After watching him work on Smiths for a week, I understand now why Benelli and Beretta don't farm out their reputations to every bumpkin with a bastard file.

Regards,
Ridge

 

[sasu]

I have bought close to a dozen new S&W handguns in the last three years. Half of them have had manufacturing defects bad enough to require a gunsmith. I live overseas so I cannot use S&W factory warranty, at least not without a lot of effort.

Just a few weeks ago my new SW1911DK 45 ACP arrived at my shop. I did not accept the gun because it had the same defects as my SW1911PD. The barrel was riding on the link, and in addition the barrel had very deep scratches across the locking lugs, not to mention the very sloppy frame to slide fit. I had an Ed Brown barrel installed professionally on my SW1911PD to correct the link riding problem, but did not want to take on that cost on another gun again.

My new 25-5 45 Colt fails to carry up on one chamber.
My 629 44 Magnum had a botched muzzle crown and a slight cylinder alignment issue.
My new 29 Mountain Gun has unfinished chamber throats, that gun is going back for warranty work.

On the other hand my 4506, 5906, 5903TSW, 29 Classic, 19, 329PD are very well made, reliable and accurate. I am waiting for delivery of a 945PC, M&P45, 60 Chief's Special but those will be my last Smith & Wessons for a while.

I do not like the lottery like suspense of whether I get a properly built gun or not. S&W should be taking a look at their quality control.

One theory to explain the attitude of S&W is that many shooters are not serious enough to notice these problems, so S&W can get away with it. Only a small percentage of buyers make a warranty claim and S&W takes care of those. It might be a case of basic profitability calculations that make this kind of compromise possible.

 

[gruntsrus]

I just recently bought my 2nd and 3rd Smith & W autos. I called the factory about the 1076 possibly having/needing some recall work related to the decocker. Sure enough, mine had not had the work yet done on it. I shipped it to them, with the mailer lable they provided to me, and 10 days later I got it back with the decocker recall completed free of charge. In their inspection they did not like the condition of the sideplate and replaced it.

Not quite sure what kind of BS the range Sgt was trying to sell you? Maybe he wants your Smith? I've seen that before. Congrats on your purchase.

 

[Jim H]

Originally posted by hfl73:
...Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

You did not make any mistake, S&W quality is as good as any, and better than some. My SW40F 1st generation Sigma (I bet your instructor would love that gun...) had a few teething problems which S&W addressed quickly and at no cost to me.

As for whether Glock or S&W has higher quality, is Coke better than Pepsi? Is a Mustang better than a Camaro? There will always be rivalries, and those who believe strongly one way or another. In the end, after you ask the questions and understand the answers, what you learn from your own experience counts more than others' opinions.

 

[growr]

Your 3913 is in my opinion an example of the finest ccw handgun made by anyone, anywhere. S&W Customer Service is the finest in the industry. My M&P .40 has over 10,000 rounds and has yet to bobble anything with any mfg. ammo. AND it keeps on getting better and better. Lastly it is MADE IN THE USA! My M&P has also won over at least 5 former Glock shooters (USPSA & IDPA) simply due to the ergonomics.
Your instructor was an idiot with an agenda..
Randy

 

[S&W-4-Me]

You made a good choice with the S&W. As a retired Tool & Diemaker I feel I have a good understanding of metal work and it's quality. In my opinion S&W is putting out a fine product. As in any manufacturing operation, you may get some flaws that get by quality control. I have been shooting many years and own the models 686SSR revolver, 5906 9mm pistol, and a model 41. These guns have the best "out of the box" trigger that I have ever used. The workmanship in these guns is excellent. I also own a Glock 36, 45 cal. Though serviceable and functions well, I don't see where the build quality of a Glock is anything to write home about. My experience with S&W, and that of other Smith owners that I have known through the years, I found Smith & Wesson stands behind their product. I think you will enjoy years of good shooting with your gun. JMHO
Ed

 

[dlstewart01]

Opinions vary.

My Smiths are not for sale.

Just my opinion

 

[Sputnik]

Means nothing. Just HIS 'personal' opinion. He has his, I have mine, you have yours. Have heard all before from several Mr.know it alls, Glock is the best, s SIG is the best, my brand of 1911 is the best, Honda is best, Harley Davidson is the best, Chevy, Toyota, yadda, yadda......

Just for fun do a google search 'Glock recalls' & 'Glock accidental shootings' A great firearm but far perfect.

 

[Ridgway]

Originally posted by bad_man_ one:

I have toured both manufacturing facilities and they are the some of the finest handguns out there now.

This brings up something else I find interesting about Glock. Try to find a photo or an article where the writer toured the manufacturing facility. Or, for that matter, any images released by the company of their facility. Nada.

Makes you wonder how much of the pistol beyond the polymer frame is outsourced to other companies. Could it be that most of what goes on at Glock is just assembly of parts made elsewhere?

Ridge

 

[ColbyBruce]

n4zov, the Glock in the photo exploded. The reason it exploded is simple, someone loaded it then pulled the trigger. Glocks do this a bunch. Google "Glock KB", "Glock Ka-boom", "Glock phase three malfunction" and you will have an eye opening experience.

Suposedly, Glocks do not support the rear of a cartridge case very well. Reloads are suspect in these circumstances. I have been in an indoor range when this happened once. It was a brand new Glock 22 .40 S&W shooting factory hardball ammo.

I have shot many Glocks, only owned one, a Gen. 1 #17.

 

[FennRx]

as another poster commented, 1 bad experience prolly tainted the instructors opinion. the same can be said about a lot of other products....i know this is true with gibson guitars for example.

i own a sigma and know some people who own them (as well as guy here and on other forums), and they definitely seem to perform as well if not better than their glock counterparts.

 

[RufusG]

Originally posted by hfl73:
I am somewhat new to handguns and over the past year I purchased a 3913 and 5926 and have enjoyed shooting them regularly. I completed a Defensive Pistol Seminar today at my local gun club and at the end of class the instructor was commenting on the quality of handguns many of the students had (mostly Glocks). He said that Smith and Wesson semiautos were not very good because they fell apart and weren't well made. Then praised how great Glocks were. I am kind of taken back by this because during the firing phase of the course my 3913 performed as well as any of the Glocks on the firing line. I am not sure I would take another class offered by this instructor based on this unfavorable opinion of my handgun. Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

If I paid money to be instructed, and it turned out I was "instructed" by a dumbass I would be asking for my money back.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by RufusG:
If I paid money to be instructed, and it turned out I was "instructed" by a dumbass I would be asking for my money back.

It may be that the rest of his instruction was perfectly fine. Only hfl73 knows since none of the rest of us were there.

Claiming this instructor was an "idiot" as was done earlier in the thread, or a "dumbass" as was done more recently, is essentially doing the same thing that this instructor did in regards to S&W handguns. One biased, wrong comment does not necessarily make the guy wrong on everything else, just like one "lemon" off the S&W assembly line doesn't make all S&W pistols junk. It may just be the guy just has a chip on his shoulder regarding S&W handguns for one reason or another.

 

[walkin' trails]

I grew up with S&W revolvers, but have never been much of a fan of their autos until acquirng my M&P. During the 1980s and early 90s, federal law enforcement agencies that acquired S&W autos and suffered reliability issues with the 9mm pistols. On the other hand, I know of one local department in my area that issued the 4026 for a number of years with good results. I've fired that gun and found it to be pretty accurate. Officers, however, told me that S&W had stopped making that model, and that forced them to adopt a new pistol. They went with the Sigma in 40. That was short lived.

I have carried and shot Glocks for over 20 years now, have worked for two agencies that had either allowed or issued Glocks, and never seen them self destruct. I've had springs break while firing, but that is it (the lesson there is to always carry a back-up gun). Poor quality reloads, double charged factory ammo, or squib loads obstructing barrels will cause any quality pistol to KB if the conditions are right.

As an instructor, I have learned that one particular gun does not fit all hands. The shooter, if allowed to by policy, should seek out the platform that he/she is most comfortable with.

 

[cshoff]

Originally posted by walkin' trails:
As an instructor, I have learned that one particular gun does not fit all hands. The shooter, if allowed to by policy, should seek out the platform that he/she is most comfortable with.

Well said, walkin' trails. And one more thing I have learned as an instructor is you don't make blanket statements such as "Smith and Wesson semiautos are not very good because they fall apart and aren't well made". Being how even the most novice gun enthusiast will easily recognize this as an untrue statement, it damages your credibility on everything else you talk about in your class, and credibility is everything for an instructor.

 

[Guest]

Originally posted by hfl73: Did I make a mistake in buying Smiths? Has anyone else had problems with Smiths due to poor quality?

Personally and professionally I think your instructor(and I use the term loosely) was way out of line by making the comments he did unless your or any other firearm "On the line" had repeated failures of one kind or another. Certainly, most Instructors will have their own opinions about certain firearms but unless this was a "Glocks ONLY" class then he should kept his "opinions" to himself.

OKay, I carry Glocks as my personal choice as Defensive sidearms but have and would again feel "Warm & Fuzzy" carrying any number of Smiths for the same purpose. But, I also put any sidearm I "carry" through my own testing process before I become comfortable with them and many, many Smiths have made it through this process with flying colors.

I suspect that since Smith has been in the business for over 150 Years and they are still going strong(relatively speaking) they must have been doing something right all these Years. Yes, Smith has had quality problems but then so have the Glocks; as have every other gun Company. Some have more problems than others and those problems can and will kill a Company quicker than anything else.

If you feel comfortable with your Smiths then stick with them. If you don't feel comfortable with the instructor then find another one.

 

[Hot Toddy]

Hey Folks!
Take advantage of the situation!! Completely agree with those having the negative opinion of S&W and then offer them low amount of cash for their S&W!! I agree with those who are folish enough to disparage or beloved Smiths then after I make the offer and they ALWAYS refuse simply say, I guess they are much better than you figured.
The gun store I frequent ( Only for the gunsmith, never bought a gun there, too proud of their stuff) always raggs on me when I bring a S&W in.
Any yet every one of theirs regardless of condition starts at $500 and goes up from there.
I guess its about putting your money where your mouth is.
However I always tell people who have 10mm S&W for sale they are horrible and they should let me "Save" them and take them off their hands!! LOL!!
Let them talk and drive the prices down. Dont let anyone in on our secret!!
Take care and God Bless...HT

 

[bkp3gen]

For what it's worth......

I have been a handgun gun owner for 40 years and have owned many brands. I started out with S&W revolvers and graduated to semi-autos. The brands I have owned have been S&W, Beretta, Ruger, Colt, Glock, CZ, Magnum Research, etc. No matter what brand I have owned, at the time of purchase I thought it was a good pistol or I wouldn't have paid the hard earned money. When you make the purchase, it is human nature to "support" that purchase. This is true in many purchases we all make. One person's opinion is just that, his/her opinion. Each and every gun I have purchased was a good buy in my opinion. As I shot and got used to the gun it was then that I formed the opinion of whether to keep it or not. Each person has a reason for owning a handgun....ie: personal protection, collecting, hunting, range use or many other reason that are personal to each of us.

Whatever brand you own is fine as long as it suits your needs. I have taken everyone's opinion of what I own with a grain of salt and leave it at that. I don't care what brand you buy, it is going to be decently made. Standards are too tight to turn out an inferior handgun in today's times as long as you are buying a reputable name.

I have chosen S&W's to be the main name in my safe because their product is varied enough to suit my needs. I like some of the Smith semi-auto's but won't buy some of their other products. It is a personal choice.

Many people want you to buy "just like they did" to help justify their purchase. Many instructors will also try to steer people toward certain guns simply for the reasons we have all read in this thread. One of the instructors I have encountered was also very high on Glock. We talked after the particular class I was taking and he said it was because 1. It was such a simple gun to own and operate and 2. Many people are new to gun ownership it is imperative they understand what makes it go bang. He told me he loathes advocating any brand but Glock seems to be the one that people can most readily understand. He also said the other brands like S&W, Ruger and Beretta are machine work marvels and it takes a seasoned owner to have the understanding to operate and maintain them properly.

I guess the purpose of this long post if to tell you that it doesn't matter what pistol you buy as long as you can shoot it properly, safely and you can maintain this weapon and keep it in proper firing condition.

 

[RufusG]

Originally posted by cshoff:
Claiming this instructor was an "idiot" as was done earlier in the thread, or a "dumbass" as was done more recently, is essentially doing the same thing that this instructor did in regards to S&W handguns. One biased, wrong comment does not necessarily make the guy wrong on everything else,

Does not necessarily make him wrong on everything else but sure makes him suspect. If he's charging money to be considered an expert, he has an obligation to know what he's talking about. Obviously he does not. He's not being paid to provide somewhat correct information, or 78% good dope. If you are going to insult someone's gun to their face it would be nice if you had some actual facts to back it up. His pontificating calls into question his preparation for the rest of the presentation.