Anybody using Universal in the .38? I'm wanting to use it with a 158 gr. lead RNFP Lee bullet. The Hodgdon website lists 3.5-4.5 with a 158 LSWC. I'm leaning toward 4.0-4.2 as a starting point. Anybody got a favorite recipe for this combo?
Universal Clays in .38 Special
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RedHawk357Mag
Member
In my loading for my gun I got 724 fps with 4.0 gr of Universal. But that was 357 brass with RSP primers and Missouri Match 158 gr SWCs. Speer #13 Lyman #49 Hodgdons 2009 Magazine/manual all agree with your suggestions for a 158 gr SWC in 38 Special.
acl864
Member
I haven't used it in 38 Special with 158 gr bullet but I had very good results developing a snubby SD load using Universal with a 148 gr. DEWC. You'll get better results with it if you work your way up towards the max load.
OP
I'm looking for a little more velocity than I get from my usual load of 3.1 gr of regular Clays. These loads will be fired in guns chambered for .357, so I don't see the need to back way off the max of 4.5 gr. Pressure was still in the 16,000 range at the max loading.
Mule88
Member
I load a bit warmer 5 gn. but the accuracy was better and no problems with my guns.
acl864
Member
I sent you a PM.
WyrTwister
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sourdough44
Member
I see it mostly listed as Hodgdon 'Universal'. It's right near Unique & rather clean burning. It's one of my most commonly used handgun powders.
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
There are 3 different powders in the Clays line, Clays, International Clays and Universal Clays. All three are very different so don't mix them up.
As for Universal, like said above, it is very close to Unique and for the most part loads just like Unique except it's much cleaner. Many reloaders changed over to Universal when Unique was not available during the latest powder crunch. The guys I know that did said they are not changing back.
As for Universal, like said above, it is very close to Unique and for the most part loads just like Unique except it's much cleaner. Many reloaders changed over to Universal when Unique was not available during the latest powder crunch. The guys I know that did said they are not changing back.
OP
Have you by chance chronographed any of those loads?
I'm sorry, never ran them across a chrony. That's always been one of my bad habits. I reload a pistol for accuracy, as long as they all cut a ragged hole at 50ft, I could care less about their speed.
As it stands right now to test them wouldn't give any real meaningful numbers. I treated my 586 with molyfusion.
As it stands right now to test them wouldn't give any real meaningful numbers. I treated my 586 with molyfusion.
OP
Well, I'm gonna retire to my cave and load up a small batch with 4+something grains and see what happens. I have a GP100 I can use as a test bed
. Seriously, I doubt 4.5-4.7 grains is anything to worry about unless fired in an aluminum cylinder snubby.
. Seriously, I doubt 4.5-4.7 grains is anything to worry about unless fired in an aluminum cylinder snubby.Model 15-4ever
Member
Here's some .38 Special chrono data for Universal:
155 gr SWC Cast, 5.0 gr Universal, Rem 1-1/2 primer
S&W Model 36 2" barrel - 804 fps SD11
S&W Model 60-4 3" barrel - 856 fps SD13
Ruger Speed-Six 4" barrel - 903 fps SD18
155 grain SWC Cast, 4.6 gr Universal, Rem 1-1/2 primer
S&W Model 60-15 3" barrel - 748 fps SD23
155 gr SWC Cast, 5.0 gr Universal, Rem 1-1/2 primer
S&W Model 36 2" barrel - 804 fps SD11
S&W Model 60-4 3" barrel - 856 fps SD13
Ruger Speed-Six 4" barrel - 903 fps SD18
155 grain SWC Cast, 4.6 gr Universal, Rem 1-1/2 primer
S&W Model 60-15 3" barrel - 748 fps SD23
handgunner356
Member
I've only loaded a real light load of 3.8grs Universal under a 158gr LSWC and it ran just over 700fps with a pretty wide spread, so I would definitely go 4.2+grs on any others I load. I do use regular Clays mostly on the .38 158gr LSWC, 3.1grs=777fps and 3.3grs=823fps in my 6" gun.
Harrison
US Veteran
4.2 gr of Universal, in 38 special cases, Oregon trail 158 LSWC, chronos out to an average of 765 FPS in my 4" model 10. I would take that max load of 4.5 gr with a bit of salt. I think Hodgen lists a heavier load of Universal with 158gr jacketed bullet.
That aside, except for 148gr target wadcutter loads, which I load with titegroup, I use Universal for all my 38 special loads, from mild to +P. It meters great, and is clean. It also works good for mid-range 357 mag loads. It is a great powder.
That aside, except for 148gr target wadcutter loads, which I load with titegroup, I use Universal for all my 38 special loads, from mild to +P. It meters great, and is clean. It also works good for mid-range 357 mag loads. It is a great powder.
And they are all used as shotgun powders - Clays is fast, International is less fast, and Universal is medium speed.
They are not all pistol powders! DO NOT use International in pistol loads. Hodgdon warns this. International has a very peculiar charge-pressure curve that can push you into very high pressures with a minuscule increase in powder, and it is not very predictable. International is, however, one of the best shotgun powders - it gives lower pressure (and lower felt recoil) that really makes a difference to your shoulder after a 300 round trap shoot.
The first Unique shortage happened in the early 90's when Alliant bought Hercules. There have been others since. When it first happened, I switched to Universal, and I haven't been back. Universal is cleaner than Unique, and it meters better through the Dillon.
Buck
ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
http://smith-wessonforum.com/members/121408-haggis.htmlBuck,
I fail to see where I said or even implied any of the Clays powder line were pistol powders...
I fail to see where I said or even implied any of the Clays powder line were pistol powders...
AACD,
I never said that you did. I was just passing along the information since Clays and Universal are very popular pistol powders, and on some forums there has been discussion of using International for pistol reloads. There's no data on Hodgdon's website about that, so I called them. They were most emphatic that International should not be used for pistols. I was certainly not trying to blame you for anything, I was just trying to save someone's face (literally).
Buck
P.S. I have seen one K-B with the stuff. Nasty!
Broke the slide, cracked the chamber. We couldn't get the gun apart.Big Cholla
Member
epj: Don't just start off with 4.5 to 4.7 grains of UC under 158 grains of bullet. I load with UC all the time and it builds pressure rapidly. IMHO you should start with 4.0 grains and go up no more than 0.1 grain at a time. I load 4.0 grains of UC under a 110 grain Berry HPplated and it is a stiff little load. ........... Big Cholla
I really like the accuracy and clean burning of UC. As said before; DON'T mix up the Clays...........
I really like the accuracy and clean burning of UC. As said before; DON'T mix up the Clays...........
