ABPOS
Member
Gotcha. I just didn't know as there wasn't any indication.. But it does seem like he's talking about a stock model.
UPDATE 2nd Model HE in .455 Webley Now with pictures!
- Thread starter delcrossv
- Start date
OP
Supposedly box stock. Should be here next week. Looks like a 6.5" barrel
Texas Star
US Veteran
It just has the one "crossed pennants" and an undetermined one on the butt.
Agreed, Curiouser and curiouser. Being from Chicago, it's looking to me like it "fell off the truck" somewhere along the way and came back through "unofficial channels" like Jim says.
Why? Most were sold here as surplus after WW II. I bought one at Gart Bros. in Denver in 1964-65.Total cost was $31.58! And the gun was in close to NRA Excellent condition.
I also bought a Colt .45 auto that had seen British service. Triple Lock.455's were also sold then, as the Brits dumped older guns on the US market. I even saw Wilkinson-Webleys advertised for sale in magazines. The MK series of govt. issued Webleys were cheaper than US M-1917 guns, but many were converted by dealers to .45 ACP, a marginally safe conversion.
And .38-200 revolvers from Colt, Enfield, Webley, and S&W were also widely sold then. Another big stash of Australian-owned S&W .38's arrived here about 1990. Most or all were arsenal reconditioned in the 1950's. These were marked FTR for Factory Thorough Repair.
Remember the principle known as Occam's Razor? Basically that the simplest answer is usually the correct one? Unless you have very specific reason to think otherwise, a British-used revolver probably arrived here in a shipment of surplus guns from about 1950-at least as late as the Gun Control Act of 1968.
Until 1915, British officers all bought their revolvers, and swords. Some were never in Government Stores, so won't have certain markings. If a gun was sold Out of Stores, it'll have opposing Broad Arrow markings. But if bought via the Army and Navy Cooperative Society or a normal UK commercial source, it won't have Govt. property markings. Some retailers marked guns they sold. So you may see some wearing the names of Rigby or other famous gun firms.
The famous Wilkinson Sword Co. ordered exclusive models from Webley,made to their design and highly finished, with hand-honed lockwork. There were at least four different models over the years. And there may have been others, had not the Firearms Act of 1920 been passed into law.
I think that after 1920, only issued sidearms could be carried officially. This was largely to reduce the number of privately owned handguns in the UK. Nonetheless, when private ones were almost all made illegal in 1997, over 300,000 were turned in and others were sold abroad or stored in Belgium, where the owners could travel to shoot their guns. And the 1997 law didn't apply to Northern Ireland or to the Channel Islands.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
They had to be marked to sell them at all, whether exported or not. When they left official service, they had to be proofed and sometimes given other markings as they entered the commercial sales realm.
OP
Because I'm from Chicago, that's why.
Lol j/k. That's a very informative post. Thanks Texas Star.
Jack Flash
Member
A lot of things came home in GI duffle bags. Swapping went on that wasn't exactly government sanctioned.
After WWII, my FIL brought back a really nice Walther P-38 that he traded a couple of cartons of cigarettes for. He also brought back a K98 Mauser. His commanding officer just threw open the door to a warehouse full of rifles and told his men to each take one. My Dad also brought back a few things but I can't discuss how they were acquired.
After WWII, my FIL brought back a really nice Walther P-38 that he traded a couple of cartons of cigarettes for. He also brought back a K98 Mauser. His commanding officer just threw open the door to a warehouse full of rifles and told his men to each take one. My Dad also brought back a few things but I can't discuss how they were acquired.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The commercial proofing was a British thing. Without the British acceptance stamps, and Canada a leading suspect, no "unofficial channels" of any kind are needed to explain the absence of markings. A Canadian gun imported here in whatever commercial or private manner will not have any additional stampings, and if it came in before 1968/1987, no importer mark either.
Jack Flash
Member
I'm wondering if back in the real old days (say pre 1960) handguns freely crossed the US/Canada border pretty much unregulated.
Well said, and OP's gun pretty much confirmed to be just that, a com'l sale.
At least I'm pretty convinced you're right.
The crossed pennant marking is a British military proof. The Canadians had a similar marking but with the letters DCP though the pennants, this stands for Dominion of Canada Proof.
If the undetermined mark on the butt strap is a small crown with the 30 under it, then this is a Canadian marking.
Photos or a good visual inspection would really help.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
If the undetermined mark on the butt strap is a small crown with the 30 under it, then this is a Canadian marking.
Photos or a good visual inspection would really help.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
OP
Finally, Pictures!
Finally, here are some pictures of the subject piece:
Do these supply any hints?
One side:
The other side
Crossed pennants stamp on the yoke
Crown over an "o" on the butt
Notice the custom hi-tech macro lens on the last two shots (Shooting through a magnifying glass)
Finally, here are some pictures of the subject piece:
Do these supply any hints?
One side:
The other side
Crossed pennants stamp on the yoke
Crown over an "o" on the butt
Notice the custom hi-tech macro lens on the last two shots (Shooting through a magnifying glass)
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Jack Flash
Member
That's a British sale mark on the yoke, not crossed pennants.
It appears to be partially removed.
It appears to be partially removed.
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OP
ABPOS
Member
That's a beauty.
Jack Flash
Member
I blew up the sale mark and it looked not so much as it was badly stamped but as if it was stamped with makeshift tools. I also blew up the O surmounted by a crown. You can see this crown too looks oddly shaped, sort like of the Disney version of a crown.
Perhaps someone here has seen these markings before?
Perhaps someone here has seen these markings before?
Attachments
OP
Thanks Jack, If you double click on the pictures they get big as well.
As to the marks,
Phony sale marks to get the piece past Customs?
As to the marks,
Phony sale marks to get the piece past Customs?
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
....
As to the marks,
Phony sale marks to get the piece past Customs?
That mark on the butt is obviously a representation of Mickey Mouse! Don't you see the large ears?
But seriously, I don't think the mark on the butt is phony, based purely on the "law of obscurity" (I made that up): It's too small and obscure to be fake. Best guess is that it's a stylized mini-representation of Canada's coat of arms, crown over a circle.
And the sold-out-of-service arrows just look badly struck to me.
Attachments
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Texas Star
US Veteran
That's a British sale mark on the yoke, not crossed pennants.
It appears to be partially removed.
Badly struck opposing Broad Arrow points. Gun was Sold From Stores. May have gone to an officer or to a surplus dealer.
A lot of these sold here in the 1950's and '60's.
No easy transit over the US-Canada border. Elmer Keith said the Mounties searched him while he was hunting in Canada. I think he said he let his revolver slide down his pants into a boot, so the constable missed it.
OP
So, Canadian, eh?
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