UPDATE 4/30/18 - Gun is Finished! - This makes me sick - Barrel Crack - PC Comp40

[WR Moore]

The dents that appear in the top round in the magazine could well be due to escaping gas.

That's an interesting warning on the ammo. I was lectured long ago about always reading the fine print, but this is a first.

If you wanted an authoritative independent opinion on the cause of the failure, HP White Laboratories does that stuff for a living. You could call and get an estimate. I'd expect about $1K minimum, but the one time we used them, we got reimbursed.

 

[jim46ok]

".... I'd want written assurance that you'd be made whole before parting company with the evidence (gun & ammo)....."

S&W will not give assurance until they HAVE the gun and have determined where (if any) fault lies. That's like writing a blank check...

 

[ladder13]

I would contact S&W first and see what course of action is needed

Sounds like a prudent first step to me.

 

[Bullet Bob]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nacho Man View Post
I would contact S&W first and see what course of action is needed

Sounds like a prudent first step to me.
______________________________________________

That might be the prudent way, but it wouldn't be the internet way.

Sorry, listening to Riders in the Sky.

 

[AlHunt]

Also, some people have suggested that S&W will not repair the gun, or offer compensation, but will refuse to return the gun. Can someone point me to the MA or federal law that allows a private company to confiscate a person's property without recourse?

If you're referring to me, what I said was if he sends it in, he'll never see it again. I said nothing about not being compensated.

Here are a couple of guys who never saw their broken guns again:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730244-post179.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730312-post183.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730719-post193.html

 

[GaryS]

The first two posts linked, don't give any information as to what was offered, what was requested, or the final outcome.

The last one shows that S&W offered several options for replacing a damaged Shield, but not what the owner finally decided to do.

So, again, I'm asking has anyone actually had a case where S&W refused repair, refused compensation, and refused to return the property to the rightful owner?

There is a big difference between saying "We can't fix your gun, but we'll do X." and "We can't fix your gun, we aren't going to offer you any replacement offers, and we aren't going to return your property to you."

S&W couldn't repair my original 442 with Satin Nickle finish when the frame cracked, but they offered me either a 642 or 442 at no charge as a replacement. They even sent me a no lock version since my gun was made before the lock was developed.

Toyota bought my son's Tacoma with rotted frame back from him, but he had to agree to leave it at the dealership right then. They didn't want him driving it and told him if refused to leave the truck and take a rental, he would have to sign a waiver releasing Toyota from any liability if he drove off the lot with the Tacoma. That's about as close as I've ever seen to a "We can't fix it, and you can't have it back." situation.

If you're referring to me, what I said was if he sends it in, he'll never see it again. I said nothing about not being compensated.

Here are a couple of guys who never saw their broken guns again:
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730244-post179.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730312-post183.html
http://smith-wessonforum.com/137730719-post193.html

 

[SVT28]

GaryS, I don't believe I've ever heard of the mothership taking a defective gun and not returning it or offering compensation. But, how is compensation assessed for a gun like this? If I elect to have them send it back if it can't be fixed, will it come back in pieces sans barrel and potentially the compensator?

Tuesday will be quite the learning experience for sure, the first call will be to S&W. I'll keep everyone posted on the developments, if an unfortunate similar scenario happens to you, maybe my experience can help.

I feel like I might have the most luck with Barsto if S&W can't repair the gun. Some fellow forum members have also reached out privately with gunsmith and repair options. This forum is always so helpful and insightful.

SVT28

Edit: The gun was purchased used, no box or manual. I looked for evidence of high round count and saw none. The barrel hood was not worn polished, the frame rails were not worn either. I have various round counts through various alloy and stainless frame semis and the amount of wear seen on the Comp40 is similar to my 4516-2 which I bought new and maybe have shot 500 rounds through (of Federal Aluminum 230 grain - GASP).

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[GaryS]

That indeed is the problem. If this were a run of the mill (if there is such a thing) 3rd Gen, it would be slightly different. This is a very rare example, which just complicates your problem.

If they send you a return tag and you send it back, it would make sense to include a carefully written letter asking them to inform you of your options, including having the gun sent back evaluated, but not repaired. In which case, if they can't or won't fix the gun, you can follow up on some of the excellent suggestions made by others in this thread.

Again, I feel for your loss. The money is part of it, but so is the loss of enjoyment from future range trips, and the total aggravation from this failure.

I often wonder why these things seem to happen going into long holiday weekends?

GaryS, I don't believe I've ever heard of the mothership taking a defective gun and not returning it or offering compensation. But, how is compensation assessed for a gun like this? If I elect to have them send it back if it can't be fixed, will it come back in pieces sans barrel and potentially the compensator?

Tuesday will be quite the learning experience for sure, the first call will be to S&W. I'll keep everyone posted on the developments, if an unfortunate similar scenario happens to you, maybe my experience can help.

I feel like I might have the most luck with Barsto if S&W can't repair the gun. Some fellow forum members have also reached out privately with gunsmith and repair options. This forum is always so helpful and insightful.

SVT28

Edit: The gun was purchased used, no box or manual. I looked for evidence of high round count and saw none. The barrel hood was not worn polished, the frame rails were not worn either. I have various round counts through various alloy and stainless frame semis and the amount of wear seen on the Comp40 is similar to my 4516-2 which I bought new and maybe have shot 500 rounds through (of Federal Aluminum 230 grain - GASP).

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk

 

[AlHunt]

So, again, I'm asking has anyone actually had a case where S&W refused repair, refused compensation, and refused to return the property to the rightful owner?

I don't see where anyone said that ever happened.

 

[18DAI]

SVT28 sorry to read about this happening to you.

I looked for the thread this AM, but cant find it. There is a member here who had a 4 inch full lug PC14. one of 131 made.

He bulged the barrel with a squib. He located a company here in the US that made him an identical replacement barrel for it. They did remarkable work and he provided their name and info. I just cant locate the thread. It was a couple of years ago.

Definitely call Barsto. Hopefully they will help. I would also call Mr Paul Liebenberger at Precision Dynamics. He is the designer of these Performance Center guns. He was helpful to me in the past. He may have some suggestions.

Good luck my friend! I'll keep a good thought for you! I hope you get that work of art up and running! Best regards, 18DAI

 

[SVT28]

SVT28 sorry to read about this happening to you.

I looked for the thread this AM, but cant find it. There is a member here who had a 4 inch full lug PC14. one of 131 made.

He bulged the barrel with a squib. He located a company here in the US that made him an identical replacement barrel for it. They did remarkable work and he provided their name and info. I just cant locate the thread. It was a couple of years ago.

Definitely call Barsto. Hopefully they will help. I would also call Mr Paul Liebenberger at Precision Dynamics. He is the designer of these Performance Center guns. He was helpful to me in the past. He may have some suggestions.

Good luck my friend! I'll keep a good thought for you! I hope you get that work of art up and running! Best regards, 18DAI

Thanks 18DAI, was this the thread? performance center model 14 4 inch revolver

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[18DAI]

YES! Thats the one. I would Email Mcgowens Precision and see what they say. Good luck! Regards 18DAI

 

[silverstateS&W]

my sympathies on the damage to the gun and i'm sure it'll be resolved eventually.
what gets me is the tendency of shooters to take a $2000 gun shooting in their $40,000 vehicle with the cheapest ammo available.

 

[SVT28]

Nice! 52 posts before someone mentioned a "cheap ammo" comment. Silverstate, is there anything in my photos or experience that confirm its the ammo's fault for this? What is your definition of "cheap ammo"?

This ammo per round cost is more expensive than imported, steel cased, or reloads so its not the cheapest 40S&W out there from a financial aspect. As far as the quality of ammo is concerned, this is Federal/CCI factory loaded ammunition. Aluminum cased ammo has been sold on the consumer market for decades and I can't find a single ammo failure that would have caused this damage on the internet. Not saying its never happened, just that the likelihood that a split casing cracking a performance center barrel with no prior flaws etc the way that it did is very unlikely. If it was a bullet setback or crimping issue, then this can happen with any factory loaded ammo. I just got done reading about overcharges, undercharges, bullet setback with other brands like Perfecta, Aguila, Magtech etc. Is there a magical brand out there that is immune to manfacturer defects that you suggest I use moving forward?

Thanks again for the kind words, just wanted to get a better understanding on where you are coming from.

SVT28

 

[bigggbbruce]

SVT,

I really feel bad for you.

I hope.....I really hope, that someone make this right for you.

Yeah..the OP's pocketbook. the cost of the gun just went up.

 

[RV4driver]

Aluminum is softer than brass. (Some of the softest brass can be softer than the hardest aluminum, but this ain't the aluminum were talking about!) This can affect neck tension. I can't shoot aluminum case ammo in any of my Walthers, it's too soft, and it affects the extraction. I would not be surprised if reduced neck tension could cause this problem after 4 rounds. Each preceding round reduced slightly in OAL until it became a problem. I'm not saying this is what happened, just that it wouldn't surprise me at all. A lot of people that insert mags, chamber a round,then unload the pistol and repeat, (LEO for instance) will rotate the first round in the mag so that the same round isn't loaded at the top of the mag and chambered each time, to reduce the possibility of setback of that round.

 

[TTSH]

I just looked over the box of ammo and found a warning regarding not shooting this ammo through a compensated/ported gun. For the life of me I've never noticed this warning. Would this have anything to do with the failure?

It might. Either way, it likely will give Federal and S&W an out. Nice gun, sorry to see that this happened.

This thread is making me physically ill just reading it as I remember what you paid for that gun.

I don't think this was something about the very common, relatively low-powered factory ammo and I don't think that warning on the box is relevant to the incident & damage in other than the way GaryS is concerned about it... i.e., an easy out for all potentially responsible parties involved. That warning supposedly has to do with bullet plating spitting out the ports, although some say it has to do with the low-powered ammo sometimes not being able to cycle the slide in a ported gun.

We need to remember that this is a 20+ year old gun for which we know little to nothing about its prior history. I don't think it was anything the OP did wrong. I think it's more likely that it has to do with its prior history or, as others have said, perhaps a hidden materials flaw in the Bar-Sto barrel that simply found its time to give way.

Externally, the gun does not look like it was ever abused and I would think the gun is worth saving... but the key will be finding (or having made) a replacement barrel without breaking the bank.

 

[bigggbbruce]

Externally, the gun does not look like it was ever abused and I would think the gun is worth saving... but the key will be finding (or having made) a replacement barrel without breaking the bank.

If mine I'd be getting the comp off, carefully driving the damaged chamber bulge down to pull the gun apart.

Then try to find a replacement (be it non threaded) barrel. Quick look on Numrich found some.

 

[Lucky Joe]

Lucky Joe

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[BMCM]

Then try to find a replacement (be it non threaded) barrel. Quick look on Numrich found some.

That's a pretty darn good idea... Why didn't I think of that

It'll take a bit of fitting but I think a 4006 barrel could be readily adapted to drop in there. You'd need a narrow hood version or plan on fitting the tab/hood to the slide. And, the spherical bulge at the muzzle end must be turned off and the barrel's length forward of the locking lugs needs to be fit to the Briley bushing & polished. That should about do it. Relatively cheap way the get the gun running again, albeit without the comp, while you hunt for a custom barrel maker.

Cheers
Bill