Upgrade to Glock!!??
- Thread starter Pasifikawv
- Start date
Show up with a Raven .25 and tell that blowhard instructor that you upgraded PAST his glock. All kidding aside, I wouldn't trade my 5903's for any of the newer guns, even the S&W M&P's. I'm not saying that I wouldn't like a new M&P, just that I wouldn't give up my third generation S&W autos to get one. Now perhaps one day I might upgrade to a 4006, or similar third generation .40, but right now I'm happy with my 5903's They go bang every time, no failures, and probably have better accuracy than I can provide with my old eyes. -Ed.
unclejerky
Member
For 30 years I've fired every sort of handgun I could get my hands on. I have always loved S&W revolvers. I have had less use for the different series of S&W automatics. I have had about the same view of the average 1911, etc. Sigs in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP were and still are in my opinion excellent. That being said, I have recently been having to reduce my firearms collection. I've sold off some revolvers and pistols that I really hated to let go. But in settling on a single handgun for home defense, I purchased a Glock G-22. I did so based on my own and my brothers (+20 yrs. law enforcement, firearms training, etc.) experience. To date it has fired 600 rds. w/o any failures to feed, fire or eject. It shoots in any position I hold it. Point of impact is precisely the point of aim at 15 yds. At that distance it will keep magazine after magazine inside of 3 inches with monotonous regularity. At 25 yds. I have no problems hitting a 8 inch plate. Given that my eyesight now restricts my effectiveness with iron sighted handguns, I am very pleased with such results.
As near as I can see, there is no modern automatic pistol that is not trying to follow the Glock in the way it is designed, the way it operates or the safety, reliability and accuracy it produces. Is the Glock superior to the M&P, Sigma, etc. Let me say I simply prefer it. As with ANY automatic pistol, the number one safety is to keep your big fat finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot the pistol. Following that one simple rule absolutely eliminates any AD. As far as holsters are concerned, other than concealed carry, one is just about always going to carry a handgun holstered. There are plenty of good options available for the Glock. No officer is going to carry a weapon in a holster that will not provide security for carry as well as security from the weapon being grabbed by a criminal. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
As near as I can see, there is no modern automatic pistol that is not trying to follow the Glock in the way it is designed, the way it operates or the safety, reliability and accuracy it produces. Is the Glock superior to the M&P, Sigma, etc. Let me say I simply prefer it. As with ANY automatic pistol, the number one safety is to keep your big fat finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot the pistol. Following that one simple rule absolutely eliminates any AD. As far as holsters are concerned, other than concealed carry, one is just about always going to carry a handgun holstered. There are plenty of good options available for the Glock. No officer is going to carry a weapon in a holster that will not provide security for carry as well as security from the weapon being grabbed by a criminal. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.
Congratulations on your selection.
Kudo's to BUSHPILOT267 on a very concise plan to choose a new handgun or any firearm for that fact.
I am at a disadvantage in that I have never had the opportunity to shoot a Sigma.
Carried a Glock 21C for several years, now carry a S&W M&P 45 and vastly prefer the S&W. I was fairly satified with the Glock, had no real problems with it, just prefer the S&W.
I have all three versions of the S&W 45 ACP, 4506, M&P, 1911PD. Very happy with all three.
Again best of luck with your choice.
Kudo's to BUSHPILOT267 on a very concise plan to choose a new handgun or any firearm for that fact.
I am at a disadvantage in that I have never had the opportunity to shoot a Sigma.
Carried a Glock 21C for several years, now carry a S&W M&P 45 and vastly prefer the S&W. I was fairly satified with the Glock, had no real problems with it, just prefer the S&W.
I have all three versions of the S&W 45 ACP, 4506, M&P, 1911PD. Very happy with all three.
Again best of luck with your choice.
bwh
Member
+2.
I've owned Glocks, Sigmas and S&W 3rd Generations. Lots of 'em. All - ALL - were good guns, reliable, accurate and rugged. When I bought the Sigmas I knew beforehand the triggers were/are terrible. Well, not really that terrible. Yes, the pull is overly heavy, but it stacks just a bit before letoff and with training the pistols offer quite good combat accuracy.
However, I just couldn't get past the non-standard light rail. The Sigma rail requires you buy accessories specific to that model, and not many manufacturers are making them. It would take S&W about 30 minutes to execute a mold change to the Sigma line to incorporate a standard light rail. Makes you wonder why they haven't. Of course, they are selling them by the truck load (literally!), so the economic incentive probably isn't there. Yet. Beyond the light rail issue they were accurate, reliable to a fault, very ergonomic (perhaps the most comfortable pistol I've ever held) and well made.
Bottom line - your Sigma is a good pistol, fully up to the challenge. Don't let a knuckleheaded instructor try to tell you any different.
KyWstJoe
US Veteran
The Sigma is the "Made in America" Glock. Before you Glock lovers flame me... Glock said that before me, they in fact said it to a Judge and Jury in Court and they agreed with Glock. S&W pays a royality to Glock for every Sigma they make. I have no idea how they keep the price about 1/2 of a glocks cost. A simple trigger mod will bring the trigger to a manageable 7-8# pull and will in no way effect reliability. Just yesterday I got my wifes 9VE, $249. after the rebate. It'll go to LSG and Frank will smooth out the trigger, polish the ramp and open the throat. All on S&W's dime. When I get it back I will remove the torsion spring from the sear assembly. I have over 1200 rounds thru mine and it's a fine pistol. It does what it was designed to do at a "Saturday Night Special" price!
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Had a chance to shoot the SW9VE again for the second time at the range. Flawless and accurate. I want one (wink wink).
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thejestersgate
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Got 200 rounds throught my girlfriends. And another 300 sitting beside it ready to go! I'm gonna buy another black one before the magazine special runs out! Well said on the ergonomics, I've shot HK, Sig, Kimber, Taurus and the Sigma feels most comfortable by far. I think it even stacks up to the awesome P30 in terms of comfort in the hand. The trigger is horrible, when another one is purchased I'll send them off one at a time for service! Good job S W!
WildCard ZX6R
Member
I think that is a myth. IIRC SW had to change the cosmetics of the slide and pay an undisclosed amount to glock for damages because of infrigement on thier copyrights and patents.
Doug M.
Member
This n that
Duty weapon: 1911, of course.
Glock in pocket: Kramer Leather Pocket Holster. Outstanding. I started with a 26, now use a 33. It's my general EDC in this holster and BUG carried elsewhere. (The 33 was a poor idea for me - doesn't really do anything a 26 won't with good ammo, and the ammo costs more and is harder to get, plus 10 rounds or so is all the fun to be had with it.)
Glock generally: 17 or 19. Best performers they have. I'd carry one quite happily.
All the information available indicates that if one is stuck with a pistol for a fight, quality loads in 9mm, 40, 45, and anything less common work about the same. There are no magic performers, especially in handguns, and anyone who takes a pistol to a fight they can't avoid is not very smart - that's what rifles are for. The 40 as a round also has issues related to the pressure and severe risk of setback (apparently due to the limited amount of bulet held by the case) - not a problem as long as you understand that a 40 round is only chambered once, then either shot or destroyed.
G22/23 have a poor track record with hard use populations, especially for intermittent hard to replicate malfunctions. Changing ammo, mag springs, recoil springs - nothing seems to work consistently. See, for example, this string: 10-8 Forums: Glock 22 Light Problems, and this one: 10-8 Forums: Glock/X200 issues.
Hard use folks who know more individually than I ever will have given very positive reviews to the M&P. I have not shot one, but have heard it is one of the most pleasant to shoot in .40. I have a friend at NCHP, and have not gotten around to asking how they like the M&Ps because I don't have the time or money to get one. WSP actually started the transition over a month ago, and it was a done deal well before that. They had HK USPs, and I shot a friend's duty weapon a couple years ago. It was not at all bad, but as usual, HK's customer service cost them a customer. I've never heard anything good about HK's CS, and my own experiences would allow me to show you the difference between Tourette's and a choice.
Duty weapon: 1911, of course.
Glock in pocket: Kramer Leather Pocket Holster. Outstanding. I started with a 26, now use a 33. It's my general EDC in this holster and BUG carried elsewhere. (The 33 was a poor idea for me - doesn't really do anything a 26 won't with good ammo, and the ammo costs more and is harder to get, plus 10 rounds or so is all the fun to be had with it.)
Glock generally: 17 or 19. Best performers they have. I'd carry one quite happily.
All the information available indicates that if one is stuck with a pistol for a fight, quality loads in 9mm, 40, 45, and anything less common work about the same. There are no magic performers, especially in handguns, and anyone who takes a pistol to a fight they can't avoid is not very smart - that's what rifles are for. The 40 as a round also has issues related to the pressure and severe risk of setback (apparently due to the limited amount of bulet held by the case) - not a problem as long as you understand that a 40 round is only chambered once, then either shot or destroyed.
G22/23 have a poor track record with hard use populations, especially for intermittent hard to replicate malfunctions. Changing ammo, mag springs, recoil springs - nothing seems to work consistently. See, for example, this string: 10-8 Forums: Glock 22 Light Problems, and this one: 10-8 Forums: Glock/X200 issues.
Hard use folks who know more individually than I ever will have given very positive reviews to the M&P. I have not shot one, but have heard it is one of the most pleasant to shoot in .40. I have a friend at NCHP, and have not gotten around to asking how they like the M&Ps because I don't have the time or money to get one. WSP actually started the transition over a month ago, and it was a done deal well before that. They had HK USPs, and I shot a friend's duty weapon a couple years ago. It was not at all bad, but as usual, HK's customer service cost them a customer. I've never heard anything good about HK's CS, and my own experiences would allow me to show you the difference between Tourette's and a choice.
BUSHPILOT267
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New glock features
Found this post on THE HIGH ROAD area about the coming Glock changes.
Here is the entire post;
We came into work a little early today to go shoot at my depts monthly shooting competition. When I show up at the range the Glock rep is standing there with the new Glock full size .40 (assuming its still the 22 but didnt really look).
First thing I noticed from the outside is the texture on the grip. Its similar to the spiky RTF grip but its not spiky. Small flat squares all around and it provided a good grip. The magazine ejection button is bigger as well.
Next thing was that it had interchangeable backstraps. Guy said it came with three sizes. He only had one there so I couldnt compare the others but it felt slimmer than my duty 22 so he must have had the small one on.
The big difference though was the inside. The new recoil spring is a multi spring unit like the 27 uses. But this one has three springs supposedly. It had the big spring with a smaller one sticking out of it similar to the 27 but they said there is a third spring inside the big spring.
I didnt get to shoot it as he was on the way out but the guys that did said the recoil reduction was quite noticeable. The guy did say though that the new frames and slides wont work with the older ones.
Sorry no pictures.
______________________________
Dear God. The Myans were right! The end is near! As we all know, change kills. At least until it proves to be the right way to go.
There will be no sleep in Mudville tonight. Recall the screams the purists made over the ambi mag release? This will have them spinning like pinwheels.
Found this post on THE HIGH ROAD area about the coming Glock changes.
Here is the entire post;
We came into work a little early today to go shoot at my depts monthly shooting competition. When I show up at the range the Glock rep is standing there with the new Glock full size .40 (assuming its still the 22 but didnt really look).
First thing I noticed from the outside is the texture on the grip. Its similar to the spiky RTF grip but its not spiky. Small flat squares all around and it provided a good grip. The magazine ejection button is bigger as well.
Next thing was that it had interchangeable backstraps. Guy said it came with three sizes. He only had one there so I couldnt compare the others but it felt slimmer than my duty 22 so he must have had the small one on.
The big difference though was the inside. The new recoil spring is a multi spring unit like the 27 uses. But this one has three springs supposedly. It had the big spring with a smaller one sticking out of it similar to the 27 but they said there is a third spring inside the big spring.
I didnt get to shoot it as he was on the way out but the guys that did said the recoil reduction was quite noticeable. The guy did say though that the new frames and slides wont work with the older ones.
Sorry no pictures.
______________________________
Dear God. The Myans were right! The end is near! As we all know, change kills. At least until it proves to be the right way to go.
There will be no sleep in Mudville tonight. Recall the screams the purists made over the ambi mag release? This will have them spinning like pinwheels.
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We are beating a dead horse. Bottom line, if you like a Glock, buy one. Just one thing...an important thing, don't ever carry a Glock (or any other auto for that matter) out of a holster with a round in the chamber! It is called condition three. It can't Plaxico on you if there isn't a round in the chamber.
Quick review. Condition One- cocked, round in chamber, safety on (when available). Condition Two- Hammer down, round in chamber (with external hammer-1911, Beretta and others). Condition Three- Hammer down, safety off, full magazine, no round in chamber.
IMO no auto pistol should ever be carried when not in holster designed for the particular weapon with a round in the chamber. Beside the obvious advantage that it can't be fired by accident or intentionally without chambering a round, if someone else were to accidentally get a hold on your gun, or wrestle it from you, it can't go bang unless you rack one in.
If you are required to go into action with your condition three pistol, it only takes a moment to chamber and shoot any model with a modest amount of practice. Safe, fast, simple.
Oh, repeating from an earlier response, get a Beretta, pass on the Glock.....IMO. As reliable as a Glock, points considerably better, not plastic, has a manual safety if you choose to use it, and is made in America.
Quick review. Condition One- cocked, round in chamber, safety on (when available). Condition Two- Hammer down, round in chamber (with external hammer-1911, Beretta and others). Condition Three- Hammer down, safety off, full magazine, no round in chamber.
IMO no auto pistol should ever be carried when not in holster designed for the particular weapon with a round in the chamber. Beside the obvious advantage that it can't be fired by accident or intentionally without chambering a round, if someone else were to accidentally get a hold on your gun, or wrestle it from you, it can't go bang unless you rack one in.
If you are required to go into action with your condition three pistol, it only takes a moment to chamber and shoot any model with a modest amount of practice. Safe, fast, simple.
Oh, repeating from an earlier response, get a Beretta, pass on the Glock.....IMO. As reliable as a Glock, points considerably better, not plastic, has a manual safety if you choose to use it, and is made in America.
I own two Glocks, a 22 and a 19 and they're both excellent guns-- for me. I really don't understand all the all slamming that goes on about different makes of guns. The only thing that matters is how the gun fits your hand and how well you shoot it. I've picked up some guns that have a lot of visual and technical appeal, and I can't get a decent group out of them. So in spite of how highly recommended they may be, I wouldn't want a gun that I have a problem shooting accurately. What the instructor should really say is "switch" to a Glock. He's using the word "upgrade" just to annoy you. If you like the Sigma, stick with it, if not get something different-- but shoot one before you buy.
