US Prop. Marked S&W 1917 ?’s

[jboboyuma]

[/IMG][/IMG][/IMG]I recently purchased the below pistol form the WW2 vets grandson and have some questions. Where is the serial number? The reason I ask is that a quick google search shows a blued version with the exact same number on the frame portion, minus the S. See attached last pic and link to that article. What the heck? Now I'm confused... I understand it should have left the factory blued, that part I get. Is it worth it to get a letter for it? If so, I want to make sure and send the historical society the correct info.

Anyone know what the actual serial number is and why would this other pistol have the same number stamped on the frame? Any help with this is greatly appreciated!

http://www.*************************/...tion-help.html

 

[robertrwalsh]

Serial number should be on the butt near where the lanyard swivel is.

 

[murphydog]

Welcome! The official serial number on this model is the one on the bottom of the grip frame, following the "No." Here is a good resource for ID information:

To IDENTIFY your Gun >

None of the military 1917s were in nickel finish originally, so a letter of authenticity would likely not be helpful.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Your gun appears to be the result of a federal felony. Unless the serial number was stamped on the side of the butt before it was ground off the bottom of the butt, it almost surely was. Possession of that gun is very unwise, and probably felonious. IANAL.

 

[H Richard]

It appears the s/n has been ground off of this gun, and that can cause a real problem with the BATFE, as an illegal firearm.

 

[DWalt]

Not one you'd want to advertise that you have. Its only value is to disassemble for parts and pitch the frame. No dealer would touch it.

 

[cgt4570]

As others have said, unless you can prove that the serial number was removed BEFORE this was a felony, you have an illegal gun subject to confiscation. One just like yours was shipped to me from a live auction a few years ago. The listing didn't show the butt so I wrongly assumed it was a legal gun. I immediately sent it back and demanded a full refund. When I posted a link to the BATFE website page, they gladly complied.

 

[jboboyuma]

Thanks all for your replies. This is what i get for not doing my homework. Seeing the number on the frame, after opening the cylinder, led me to believe that that was the serial number. Now, it seems, I have a problem on my hands.

 

[flagman1776]

The legal serial number should on the bottom of the grip frame where the swivel is. Sometimes, gunsmiths could get permission to move the serial number to the side of the frame before performing customizing alterations which would remove / damage the orginal location which must be on the frame. If it was remarked, it might be under the grips.
As you have been correctly told, a missing serial numer is a Federal Felony.
The serial number was likely repeated under the barrel, on the yoke & cylinder but since those parts can be replaced, they are not the legal serial number.
Even if it had a serial number, it's been refinished & has no collector interest.

 

[jboboyuma]

Looking at the bottom of the grip, there appears to be no material removed. Looking at pics of other 1917's, the serial number seems to be kind of deep. To remove it completely, a fair amount of buffing or grinding would have had to take place to get rid of it.

Is is possible that it's an early gun and didn't have the serial number there? Are the early guns stamped on the bottom of the grip?

Disregard---found an example of an old one and serial number is on the bottom of the grip frame.

 

[i1afli]

The number 1480 on the crane is not a serial number but an assembly number.
When issued the serial number was stamped on the buttt, barrel, cylinder, and a few other places so the fact that the barrel and cylinder have 1935 stamped on them indicates that was probably the gun's serial number and it got ground off the butt...not good.

I couldn't see the photo of the other one so I can't comment on it's serial no.

 

[Muley Gil]

Welcome to the Forum.

The number on the frame, behind the yoke, is an assembly number. The true serial number was the one that used to be stamped on the butt. It would have matched the numbers found under the barrel and on the back of the cylinder.

Unfortunately, possession of a firearm that has had the SN removed is a Federal felony and is also illegal in most states as well.

 

[Camster]

Being purchased from the grandson of a WW2 vet has little to do with this WW1 revolver.Gramps didn't have this at the Battle of the Bulge.
As others have said,the missing number is a no-no,(1935 appears to be the serial number on the bottom of the barrel and cylinder face though inadequate in the eyes of the law) never mind that it's been refinished and has what I believe are Jay Scott grips on it.

 

[DWalt]

"As others have said, unless you can prove that the serial number was removed BEFORE this was a felony, you have an illegal gun subject to confiscation."

I have no idea how that could ever be proven. However, it is not illegal to possess a gun which never had a SN and was made prior to the GCA-68 requirement that all guns have a unique SN. At one time, many cheap .22 rifles and shotguns were not serial numbered at the time of manufacture.

It is probably futile to consider bringing a gun to a BATFE office and requesting authorization to apply a new SN. You would need to have a VERY good story about exactly how and why the original SN was defaced or removed, and that would also be nearly impossible to concoct.

 

[jboboyuma]

Thanks everyone, that's why I came here! I am going to get this gun back to the person i purchased it from. I'm not going to deal with the legal issues associated with owning it. Thanks for all of your replies.

 

[cgt4570]

Yep. It's just like having a car with the VIN removed. Very dice-ee. If there is some way to prove the serial was defaced before the handgun act of 1968, you're golden. Unfortunately, that's very hard to prove.

 

[DWalt]

Essentially the seller is on the hook. It is as illegal to sell such a gun as it is to possess one.

 

[Hondo44]

Thanks everyone, that's why I came here! I am going to get this gun back to the person i purchased it from. I'm not going to deal with the legal issues associated with owning it. Thanks for all of your replies.

At least look under the grips for the #1935 re-stamped there. If so, you're good to go.

Assembly #s are random #s used during assembly at the factory. These #s never exceeded 5 digits, therefore it's very common to find duplicate numbers like you did.

SERIAL # LOCATIONS: To confirm all parts are original, one can check for the 6 (or 7, on Triple Locks only) matching serial # locations for fixed sight pre war Hand Ejectors and all post war Hand Ejectors thru ~1956 (and a few as much as 3 years later).
NOTE: Observing serial #s for accuracy or even existence, especially on penciled stocks, requires magnification, bright light, cleaning, and an attitude that it is there!

1. Gun butt – (or fore strap on I frames/single shots with grips that cover the butt)

2. Barrel - bottom of barrel or in extractor shroud

3. Yoke - on rear face only visible thru a chamber with a flashlight

4. Extractor star – backside facing cyl

5. Cylinder - rear face

6. Right stock only - on back, (except most post war target stocks because individual fitting not required); stamped, scratched or penciled depending on vintage and stock material.

7. Triple Locks only: rear side of middle lock cam plate

 

[wheelgun610]

.... No dealer would touch it.

Yeah, there are. I can show you one. A few years ago, a locally well known shop in Dickson, TN had a poorly refinished (and grossly over-priced) Victory Model that had had the S/N ground off the butt. The shop's owner proceeded to essentially tell me I was stupid when I mentioned to his sales clerk that the gun was illegal. After listening to his BS reasoning, I asked him to remind me not to ever drop a nickel in his shop, then headed for the door.

What I should've done was to call BATFE on the spot and ask (in a non-incriminating way) about the legality of the gun. For full effect, I could have done it on 'speakerphone' mode so the arrogant owner could hear ATF's response. Yup, that's what I 'shoulda' done.

That was my first time ever walking in the door of that shop, and no I'll never return.

Mark

 

[RGVshooter]

What a shame. That is like the 2nd or 3rd one I've seen that was refinished with the butt serial number milled off. Even the numbers under the barrel. Me personally I wouldn't touch it.

Besides; "Son, only a pimp in a Louisiana ___house carries pearl handled revolvers"...............George S. Patton.