Use of manuals
- Thread starter mikld
- Start date
Extrapolation
The seasoned reloader uses the (sometimes contradictory) data from assorted manuals, along with a reloading log/database of past loading sessions and results from running specific loads through the chrony.
I've found that magnum pistol primers work well in recipes not listed in any manual I've run across. Reloading is a journey in and of itself.
The seasoned reloader uses the (sometimes contradictory) data from assorted manuals, along with a reloading log/database of past loading sessions and results from running specific loads through the chrony.
I've found that magnum pistol primers work well in recipes not listed in any manual I've run across. Reloading is a journey in and of itself.
There are posters who are, in a word, cheapskates. I spent several hundred dollars accumulating the manuals I need for research and knowledge. Sometimes get the feeling that since an old timer gave them a free hand up as a beginner, they are expecting to continue to be given a free hand out as time passes.
I agree that it is difficult to discern the freeloaders from those newly curious or actively seeking clarification of their previous experience but at times, it is blatantly obvious.
This is not T-Ball. Not everyone gets a trophy simply for showing up.
I agree that it is difficult to discern the freeloaders from those newly curious or actively seeking clarification of their previous experience but at times, it is blatantly obvious.
This is not T-Ball. Not everyone gets a trophy simply for showing up.
MichiganScott
Member
I would guess the reason no one has answered that they do not use manuals is that not doing so would be Darwinism at it's finest and they would shortly be without the fingers needed to pull the handle on a press.
venomballistics
Member
I can understand part of the inquiry phenomena.
While im one to do my homework and try a few combinations to crack the performance code, I also see the data in the manuals for what it is.
That being a combination of ideal loads as well as adequate loads to cover components on hand.
This bears some need for sorting some wheat from chaff.
While im one to do my homework and try a few combinations to crack the performance code, I also see the data in the manuals for what it is.
That being a combination of ideal loads as well as adequate loads to cover components on hand.
This bears some need for sorting some wheat from chaff.
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
The reason folks are unsure might be that they never read the front part of a manual. By reading ANY one of the major ones published, you can teach yourself to reload.
What I have found is that folks get them for the data only then get confused when x manual doesn't match y manual. The answer to those kinds of questions are already answered in the front part, the part most folks do not read.
Listen, America has become a society of lazy bums that want someone else to do the grunt work and they get the benefits without lifting a finger, so to speak.
If you feel like you are dealing with one of the latter folks, tell them to do something for themselves, prove it, then give them another question to answer. If they answer that, give them a bit more info, then, bait them again and send them on a hunt for information.
FWIW
What I have found is that folks get them for the data only then get confused when x manual doesn't match y manual. The answer to those kinds of questions are already answered in the front part, the part most folks do not read.
Listen, America has become a society of lazy bums that want someone else to do the grunt work and they get the benefits without lifting a finger, so to speak.
If you feel like you are dealing with one of the latter folks, tell them to do something for themselves, prove it, then give them another question to answer. If they answer that, give them a bit more info, then, bait them again and send them on a hunt for information.
FWIW
With the data on line from Alliant and Hodgdon, I don't blame some for wanting some extra info on reloading !!
Samr goes for some manuals like the Speer #8 and others out there that have data that I sort of laught at.............
For years I trusted the Lyman data but even the new manual has me scraching my head with some of the data listed.
I may correct someone if I think their might be a "slight" difference in what I think is correct or advise to what I have used in the past or even give out some data that is all over the sites that deal with reloading.
they can just go to another site and try for info but one NEVER knows what data is correct or even safe from word of mouth info. Plus what is safe in your gun does not always mean it will work in another.
Samr goes for some manuals like the Speer #8 and others out there that have data that I sort of laught at.............
For years I trusted the Lyman data but even the new manual has me scraching my head with some of the data listed.
I may correct someone if I think their might be a "slight" difference in what I think is correct or advise to what I have used in the past or even give out some data that is all over the sites that deal with reloading.
they can just go to another site and try for info but one NEVER knows what data is correct or even safe from word of mouth info. Plus what is safe in your gun does not always mean it will work in another.
I see this a lot more with the "manufacturers" manuals mostly, manufacturers of bullets and powder that is, their business is to sell you their products. My favorite "how to", "what for" and "how much" sources are from individuals and not manufacturers, with the exception of Lyman, as these will usually only give you what works best for them.
I have a lot of books, manuals, guides and whatever, but they are not for recipes, they are to see what the various sources say on everything else. Once you figure out how to use charge data, life is a lot less complicated.
mkk41
US Veteran
My reloading mentor told me, "Manuals are meant to be a guide , not a gospel!"
Twoboxer
Member
I cut out a lot of what was said, because I wasn't looking for answers to the questions I posed. I was pointing out that this info is difficult for newbs to find, and the quickest way to be re-assured about how to interpret and use data is to ask those who know.
Like here on the forums.
So, I guess I could say thanks for agreeing with me. Newbs typically could use help in those areas and some others. It's up to you whether to provide it or not.
Personally, I'm not against helping them with that kind of info as long as they have done a reasonable amount of background work and pose the question(s) intelligently. YMMV.
And yes, I use manuals and internet data from powder manufacturers to give me a concept of the limits. The rest is up to me.
I agree with you 100%
Until now.
The old saying "You can never ask a stupid question" is true. But there is no old saying about stupid answers and reloading forums are full of them. Don't get me wrong, there are many very intelligent reloaders on the forums, but there are others that are flying by the seat of their pants, and it is hard for newbs to know the difference.
Philip Sharpes book "The Complete Guid to Handloading" is available for free on the internet in PDF format. So is Earl Naramores "Handloaders Manual". These are old manuals but are very informative, but don't use the data until you get some whiskers. Others books by Earl Naramore and George Nonte are available used and are a little more up to date. These are better than the manufacturers manuals if you want to really understand reloading or have serious questions other than load data. If you want load data every powder company I can think of, and a few I didn't know existed, has free data available on their websites, even Goex.
One thing to keep in mind is that just because you find data in a reputable printed book, it still may not be safe, as in Speer no. 8, so, based on previous posts, if something doesn't look right to you ask the powder manufacturers first.
Any manual isn't good for everything
Any one manual isn't good for everything, so it's ok to ask, but I think any reloader should study at least one manual thoroughly before going very far afield and work up data from a safe point looking for signs of excess pressure as they go.
Any one manual isn't good for everything, so it's ok to ask, but I think any reloader should study at least one manual thoroughly before going very far afield and work up data from a safe point looking for signs of excess pressure as they go.
Well there are also a number of question where the OP looked in two different manuals and one has a starting load higher than the others top load. These kind can be confusing to the best of us but I agree, in general there are too many people looking to get told what load to use because its all too confusing to them and they got brain lock and can't make a decision. I think what is the most annoying is to see the same questions asked over and over only a day or two apart. People don't think to look at older threads or use the search feature first.
[added]- I think what the OP had in mind is not so much the seasoned loader asking asking about some particular load, but instead the person who has little to no experience, who doesn't do their own research and just shows up asking (without much clue as) what to stuff in the case.
Myself, I often ask about a load to see what others have come up with, or use of a particular powder that doesn't have easily found data or sometimes even I'm lazy too and want to get a consensus of what the crowd has tested and where the accurate charge lies. Then sometimes its just to get a jaw session going. No offense, but it's kinda like TV, if you don't like the movie, change the channel... I do.
[added]- I think what the OP had in mind is not so much the seasoned loader asking asking about some particular load, but instead the person who has little to no experience, who doesn't do their own research and just shows up asking (without much clue as) what to stuff in the case.
Myself, I often ask about a load to see what others have come up with, or use of a particular powder that doesn't have easily found data or sometimes even I'm lazy too and want to get a consensus of what the crowd has tested and where the accurate charge lies. Then sometimes its just to get a jaw session going. No offense, but it's kinda like TV, if you don't like the movie, change the channel... I do.
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JenniferG
US Veteran
My second post on the S&W forum. I've been reloading since about 1985. I put my reloading gear away back in about 2004 because of conditions beyond my control (physical health). Now I'm ready to start back up again. I had help learning how to reload from a experienced older gentleman that owned the property our gun club leased from him. I learned techniques for seating bullets and whether to taper crimp or not for certain loads among other things. I kept meticulous logs like he taught me. Jim also taught me that his techniques were old time and that with all the new styles of bullets, powders and casings that were hitting the market I would need to keep up. Jim said I would need some high quality reloading manuals to be sure I was using the right powders at the right weights with all this new fangled stuff (late 80's, think 230 grain XTR, Speer 200gr flying ashtrays and something claw, I think Federal maybe). There was no internet back then, only books, experience, mistakes and doing teaching the novice. I read all the front sections to understand exactly what the heck I was doing and why.
I still have my RCBS, Speer, Hornady, Lyman in various editions along with a few not so known ones written by Edward R Matunas I picked up at gun shows. I have some old powder pamphlets too. At one point (this will show my age, oops) Dupont got out of the powder business and sold everything to Hercules and then new manuals came out. I have a mixture of before and after which was a pretty big thing back then.
The point I'm making is that there's no substitute for gathering as much knowledge as you possibly can about the loads your making before you stick that load into your prized model 27 and it doesn't go as you expected. I see a lot of pictures of semi autos with stove pipe jams and that can be directly related to the loads used. I stopped short of buying the chronograph gear and all of that but I reloaded a few cartridges between '85 and '04, mostly 45acp, 223 rem, 30 carbine, 45-70 and now I'm going to give it another go since it looks like it's going to be much harder to obtain the ammo I want. I have RCBS 357 dies that I bought back in about 2002 that were never used but since 357 is my carry gun now I think they might get some use.
I expect to do some research via the internet to see if 1) my reloading manuals are still viable and accurate 2) buy some new updated ones to make sure powder formulas haven't changed and to partially compensate for newer products on the market since 2004. I hope I can use this forum help me catch up and maybe add a few things too. Thanks.
I still have my RCBS, Speer, Hornady, Lyman in various editions along with a few not so known ones written by Edward R Matunas I picked up at gun shows. I have some old powder pamphlets too. At one point (this will show my age, oops) Dupont got out of the powder business and sold everything to Hercules and then new manuals came out. I have a mixture of before and after which was a pretty big thing back then.
The point I'm making is that there's no substitute for gathering as much knowledge as you possibly can about the loads your making before you stick that load into your prized model 27 and it doesn't go as you expected. I see a lot of pictures of semi autos with stove pipe jams and that can be directly related to the loads used. I stopped short of buying the chronograph gear and all of that but I reloaded a few cartridges between '85 and '04, mostly 45acp, 223 rem, 30 carbine, 45-70 and now I'm going to give it another go since it looks like it's going to be much harder to obtain the ammo I want. I have RCBS 357 dies that I bought back in about 2002 that were never used but since 357 is my carry gun now I think they might get some use.
I expect to do some research via the internet to see if 1) my reloading manuals are still viable and accurate 2) buy some new updated ones to make sure powder formulas haven't changed and to partially compensate for newer products on the market since 2004. I hope I can use this forum help me catch up and maybe add a few things too. Thanks.
I'm with you on that.
I just had a long lay off for the same reasons and I'm restarting my hobby. The first thing I found out is that I need to update my manuals because a lot has CHANGED. And I admire the detailed methods outlined in your post. That is invaluable and it would pay for anyone to absorb that.
I just had a long lay off for the same reasons and I'm restarting my hobby. The first thing I found out is that I need to update my manuals because a lot has CHANGED. And I admire the detailed methods outlined in your post. That is invaluable and it would pay for anyone to absorb that.
midminnesota
Member
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I have several manuals and a few pamphlets and use some of the websites such as hodgdon and Alliant. I ask for some info so that I can hear the results others have been having and not have to buy as many powders as I did when I started reloading. I am now getting into some pistol reloading and find it helpful to ask others for their input, as it will help guide me in the right direction. I can look in my manuals and verify loads that others offer and validate their safety. When I was an apprentice for my job, I asked my journeyman for advice, because they have knowledge that I needed. I am applying that same concept with reloading. I have just over ten years of reloading under my belt, which is far less than allot of individuals on the forums I frequent, but I still find it informative to ask for the knowledge of others to help.
