Used guns

[gunrunner1]

This may be a redundant topic but since I'm new here I'm going to bring it up. It's my "rant" topic of choice.

I understand that parting with a gun of any sort can be a traumatic time for most of us. It hurts me to my soul sometimes. But, I hate that when I look at gunbroker or armslist and see someone pricing a gun for hundreds of dollars more than what it costs brand new at a retail store! When I sell a gun, I look at what they are ACTUALLY selling for on gunbroker, then I do a search and see what other people have paid for them, lastly I look at a gun values book. I then determine the condition and price it accordingly.
For example, I recently acquired a colt lawman 2" that is about 95% with original colt box and paperwork. He first told me that 800 seemed fair. Mind you, BNIB is somewhere around 473.00. He looked the gun up on gunbroker and saw people were listing it for 800 to 1000.... Not one of them was selling! The ones for 400 to 550 WERE selling. That is my guideline. I reasoned with him and got it in the neiborhood of 350.
So why do people feel that there guns are some rare exception to the rules? Is it there subconscious saying they don't actually want to sell it? I wish I knew but would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

 

[allglock]

You know... There will always be someone who will pay a premium, on any gun.... It just takes the right buyer, and it may take a long time.
Sellers that charge a premium, usually have all the time in the world to sell it....
I cant stand it when people want something for nothing... That is more of a beef for me..
Just the other day, a guy on the Pa. gun forum was selling a nice model 66 for $350. I PMd him and told him he could get more for it. He said he needed the money ASAP. So I guess there is a reason for everything.
P.S. I know I have paid a premium, on guns that I really wanted, at one time or another.

 

[Iggy]

I think some of them fellers operate under two assumptions.

A fool and his money are soon parted, and there's a sucker born every minute.

Let's see if we can hook one.

 

[BCDWYO]

I've bought and sold a number of guns on Gunbroker and on this forum. In general when I sell I try to set the price to what is fair. I've sold several by penny auctions, so that the market truly sets the price. On the other hand, as a buyer, I've been guilty in the past of getting my heart set on a particular model with certain features and probably overpaid because I lacked patience. If I were to sell those guns, I'd probably want to try to get close to what I paid for them, so in those cases I might over-price them slightly (and unless I was lucky, they would probably sit for quite a while!) Obviously it all comes down to supply and demand, and sometimes luck.

 

[BCDWYO]

I think some of them fellers operate under two assumptions.

A fool and his money are soon parted, and there's a sucker born every minute.

Let's see if we can hook one.

Hey Iggy...I RESEMBLE that remark!! LOL...actually I think I've gotten a bit more disciplined when it comes to waiting for a reasonable deal, but I know I've overpaid at times.

 

[gunrunner1]

Very valid points everyone. It does bug me when people offer you way less than what a gun could go for. In a sense they are saying your an idiot and don't know any better. That could upset me just as much as someone overcharging. I guess my beef if for the people who live in denial. For example, how many h&r single shot 12 gauges have you seen than can fetch more than 125 on a good day? Yet people list them for upwards of 200! It boggles my mind.

 

[otis24]

Same thing happens in the car business. Had a guy that wanted to trade in a camper on a new vehicle. I had a nearby camper dealer who sold that brand of camper on speaker phone. He stated that retail value, in excellent shape was $5k. This guy kept insisting that his was worth $10k "because its in good shape".

Or people see cars like theirs "selling" for $x (the price that the dealer has the marked for resale). I have to explain that this is RETAIL price, firstly. Secondly, most people aren't just going to come in a pay that price ("Gee Mr. Customer, you don't want to pay me retail for my brand new one. What makes you think someone will pay retail for your beat up used one"). Lastly, if I did give your retail price for yours, yours isn't worth $x. You see Mr. Customer, retail price is for "excellent shape". We have to deduct the price for a new windsheild (see that big crack running across yours). We also have to deduct the price for the new set of tires that it needs. Then there is the clean up, detail and upholstery work.

 

[ischia]

Adding to Iggy's comment: "a fool and his money are soon married"

Ischia

 

[bigmoose]

What really irks me is the gun show dealer with the smug look on his face trying to sell me a box of 9mm Federal ammo for $18. The same exact box is $9.97 at my local Walmart. He assumes I am an idiot. I won't consider buying anything on his table. You lost a customer, buddy.

If you want knowledgeable folks with money in their pockets (and are more than willing to make a fair deal with you) to be your customers, treat them with just a little bit of respect. The quality and quantity of your client base says a lot about your business practices.

 

[jdad]

Why do they do it? Because they believe in the old used car salesman adage......"there's a butt, for every seat, no matter the price..."

 

[jimmyj]

Jimmy's method of dealing:
If I am selling, my stuff is common and almost worthless and the buyer is doing me a great favor by taking it off my hands.

If I am buying, what I am buying is rare, valuable, and in most cases, a collector's item. The seller is only selling it to me because he likes me a whole lot.

P.S. I am very popular at Gun Shows.

 

[sodacan]

The beauty of a free market is that it allows us to buy or sell as we please. You are taking this way too personally.

 

[vipermd]

Jimmy J: I have a one of a kind revolver for sale call me!!! LOL I have bought on this forum and bought and sold on GB,AA,GA and it is difficult to understand what a seller/buyer is thinking. Many times people add personal attachment to the price, or they bought it at high retail+ tax and expect to sell for at least what they paid if not more. The area of the country is also important- a ruger p-85 in 9mm is a paperweight!! Have I paid to much of course, but now I have my ( " twin-barreled, 46.8 cal super blaster, with 1K rd mag, trimmed in silver and gold, that never misses). Be Safe,

 

[Ashlander]

Sodacan has a good point -- it's nothing personal if somebody gives you a lowball offer -- just say "no thank you." I might lowball if I really did not need or want the gun (but it looked nice) -- it's worth only so much under those conditions -- if the seller is happy with my lowball offer, then I am happy to buy a gun for which I have limited use. Actually, in those circumstances I am surprised if I don't get a "no" -- I have a nice Ruger P95 that I absolutely don't need only because the Seller said "OK since it's you." That one was hard to explain to the wife.

The flip side is I might offer a premium to get that 3" inch k-frame magnum -- as would a lot of us.

And in none of this are we taking food out of a child's mouth (I hope) -- we are all big boys selling and trading our toys. Being on the short end of a deal every once in a while is not the end of the world (especially if you need to money now) -- it all evens out over the long haul anyway.

Enough of that....

 

[amazingflapjack]

Rules?

I'm with soda can and bcd on this one. The only rule I know is "buyer beware." I sure can't expect folks to sell me something based on what my research, or whatever, has turned up. Model 610's, and just about abything with a three inch barrel are good examples of this right now. You can calculate all day long, but if you're gonna buy one, you're gonna probably pay a premium for it; even a holer in the case of the 610. The most someone will pay, weighted against the least the seller will accept, is the definition of market value I like best. Flapjack.

 

[otis24]

Part of it is a customer problem as well (at least looking at it from the automobile sales standpoint). No matter what you price an item, the buyers first words are "Thats too much! Will you take $x?".

I firmly believe that I could price a $50k pickup at $30k, and 90% of the buyers would say, would you take $20k for it. As a matter of fact, a co-worker priced a new pickup to a buyer at $5k below our COST, just to see if he was serious. This gentleman had been shopping around. Think he jumped on the deal? Nope. His response was "Well, that still sounds a little high. Knock off another $500 and I might think about it". Perhaps too many of the sellers have experienced this kind of customer and have overpriced their merchandise in anticipation of the guy who is looking for something for nothing. As a salesman, I would ask my customer what their budget was. Too often, it was the $10k-$12k range. But they were continually looking at cars in the $18k-$20k range. Often, I was polite but blunt and asked the customer what they were trying to accomplish. My conversation went like this "$10k will buy you a $10k car. We have those available. If you are trying to buy a $20k car for $10k, I won't be able to help you today.". The key to success is realistic expectations on both the part of the buyer AND the seller.

 

[gunrunner1]

The beauty of a free market is that it allows us to buy or sell as we please. You are taking this way too personally.

I agree the free market is beautiful, but when one idiot thinks his colt python is worth 3500, Then everyone else thinks theirs is worth that much. Then it's hard to find a gun that's at fair market value. That's what chaps my rear. It's price gouging IMHO

 

[larry8]

The way I think about buying an item is that the seller (a) doesn't want that item any longer, (b) the seller needs money so he put the item up for sale. In either case the seller should be open for an offer at slightly below retail if he wants to get rid of that item. So I make offers at 25-30% lower than retail. Then bargain to a mutually agreed upon price. We both walk away happy.

 

[otis24]

At the gun shows I've attended, I see the same vendors over and over. Every time, they pretty much have the same overpriced items year after year. From what I've witnessed, they can't be having too much success. I don't know how they can afford to do it, or why they would want to. I guess that's why they call them gun SHOWS!

 

[BCDWYO]

Part of it is a customer problem as well (at least looking at it from the automobile sales standpoint). No matter what you price an item, the buyers first words are "Thats too much! Will you take $x?".

I firmly believe that I could price a $50k pickup at $30k, and 90% of the buyers would say, would you take $20k for it. As a matter of fact, a co-worker priced a new pickup to a buyer at $5k below our COST, just to see if he was serious. This gentleman had been shopping around. Think he jumped on the deal? Nope. His response was "Well, that still sounds a little high. Knock off another $500 and I might think about it". Perhaps too many of the sellers have experienced this kind of customer and have overpriced their merchandise in anticipation of the guy who is looking for something for nothing. As a salesman, I would ask my customer what their budget was. Too often, it was the $10k-$12k range. But they were continually looking at cars in the $18k-$20k range. Often, I was polite but blunt and asked the customer what they were trying to accomplish. My conversation went like this "$10k will buy you a $10k car. We have those available. If you are trying to buy a $20k car for $10k, I won't be able to help you today.". The key to success is realistic expectations on both the part of the buyer AND the seller.

Excellent points Otis...I think relating to guns this is especially true when selling in person (such as at a gunshow for me). When I try to sell a gun at a gunshow I almost always tack on a little because I EXPECT people to want to haggle and that gives me some room to come down and make them feel better. Obviously that strategy doesn't apply to auction sites, and I don't think it really works on this forum either because here the buyers tend to be more informed, and haggling isn't a big part of it.

 

[nipster]

I agree the free market is beautiful, but when one idiot thinks his colt python is worth 3500, Then everyone else thinks theirs is worth that much. Then it's hard to find a gun that's at fair market value. That's what chaps my rear. It's price gouging IMHO

There is a lot of that going on right now. Some thing that just because it's got a pin in the barrel automatically its worth $200 more...

 

[Clean Break]

...I understand that parting with a gun of any sort can be a traumatic time for most of us. It hurts me to my soul sometimes. But, I hate that when I look at gunbroker or armslist and see someone pricing a gun for hundreds of dollars more than what it costs brand new at a retail store!
So why do people feel that there guns are some rare exception to the rules? Is it there subconscious saying they don't actually want to sell it?

Yes I think you nailed it. In a way it reminds me of most of the crappy yard/garage sales that the local folk hold in Cowlitz Co., WA. They have the time, they have the cheapy plastic ****, or rusty bent tools, they aren't really trying to clear it out or clean up their place, and they really aren't interested in moving their "product". It is something to do and at the end of the day, 75% of their garbage remains and they made enough money to buy a coupla cases of beer.

Guns, I know, are different... but...

Maybe it is like fishing for spring chinook salmon in January and February in the Columbia River.... you go and hope for the miracle, but when only 3 salmon have crossed the Bonneville Dam... reallly? What am I doing out there with dozens of other boats at least a month or two ahead of the real migration? What are our chances of connecting with that miracle fish? (Two years ago I caught one on Feb. 7th!).

Ahhh, it's somethin' to do I guess. And you can't catch one if you're sitting at home watching t.v. C.B.

 

[chez323]

All valid points, but the bottom line is people have an idea in their head what their gun is worth and they won't budge from it. When I list a gun for sale, I check gunbroker to see what they are selling for used. I check Buds to see what new ones are going for and then I price it accordingly. Bottom line is that if I price it too high, it won't sell. I've seen ads posted on the forums I frequent (there are a few) that were way overpriced and sent the buyer a private msg giving them my honest opinion. Some take it well, others not so much. Now I just limit my personal comments to things that are required by that particular forum such as price or state seller lives in. On the flip side I've seen guns listed for sale for less than I think they are worth and if its something I'm interested (even remotely if the deals good enough) I bite and buy it. Also, if the person lists obo after their price I'll consider a lower offer. I expect that when I do that on my ads, I even state it in the ad "shoot me an offer, the worst I'll say is no thanks".

You take the good, you take the bad and there you have the facts of life. LOL sorry but that just popped into my head.

 

[KEN L]

Jimmy's method of dealing:
If I am selling, my stuff is common and almost worthless and the buyer is doing me a great favor by taking it off my hands.

If I am buying, what I am buying is rare, valuable, and in most cases, a collector's item. The seller is only selling it to me because he likes me a whole lot.

P.S. I am very popular at Gun Shows.

Hey, are you the guy that always runs around with dollar bills hanging out of your pockets, just begging for a "great deal" meant just for you???? Cause I think I've seen you!!

 

[trauma1]

This may be a redundant topic but since I'm new here I'm going to bring it up. It's my "rant" topic of choice.

I understand that parting with a gun of any sort can be a traumatic time for most of us. It hurts me to my soul sometimes. But, I hate that when I look at gunbroker or armslist and see someone pricing a gun for hundreds of dollars more than what it costs brand new at a retail store! When I sell a gun, I look at what they are ACTUALLY selling for on gunbroker, then I do a search and see what other people have paid for them, lastly I look at a gun values book. I then determine the condition and price it accordingly.
For example, I recently acquired a colt lawman 2" that is about 95% with original colt box and paperwork. He first told me that 800 seemed fair. Mind you, BNIB is somewhere around 473.00. He looked the gun up on gunbroker and saw people were listing it for 800 to 1000.... Not one of them was selling! The ones for 400 to 550 WERE selling. That is my guideline. I reasoned with him and got it in the neiborhood of 350.
So why do people feel that there guns are some rare exception to the rules? Is it there subconscious saying they don't actually want to sell it? I wish I knew but would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

You read my mind. I think a big reason is our inability to "wait" and shop around some. We feel we need it right now no matter the cost. It is not just SW, have seen Ruger OM 3 screws go for 1000, 2000, 3000+ recently. We all complain about the prices of our beloved sidearms bit we keep shelling out the money! Makes it sweeter when we have the patience to wait and find a diamond in the rough!

 

[one eye joe]

You know... There will always be someone who will pay a premium, on any gun.... It just takes the right buyer, and it may take a long time.
Sellers that charge a premium, usually have all the time in the world to sell it....
I cant stand it when people want something for nothing... That is more of a beef for me..
Just the other day, a guy on the Pa. gun forum was selling a nice model 66 for $350. I PMd him and told him he could get more for it. He said he needed the money ASAP. So I guess there is a reason for everything.
P.S. I know I have paid a premium, on guns that I really wanted, at one time or another.

I agree. If a gun is listed at a price that seems too high, it's your option to pass on the deal. MANY people (esp on gun forums) seem to want something for nothing. I have been trading in weapons for over 50 years. I NEVER have tried to grind a person down on price. Likewise, I REFUSE to give a gun away. The true market value in a free economy is EXACTLY what someone is willing to pay for a good or service. In time, someone will buy your gun at your price. IMHO, one never pays "too much" for a high quality weapon as it will appreciate in time to much more than you paid for it. I have NEVER lost money on a Colt or a S&W. I DON'T buy junk and I treat my weapons well. (thank you US ARMY for instilling that in me)

 

[snoopdawg45]

Buy High and sell Low. Make it up in Volume. That's my Motto

 

[semperfi71]

gunrunner1,

It is interesting that you mention the Colt Lawman 2 inch barrel version. I just sold mine at the last gunshow for $750.00. I had it marked at $900.00 and let it go for the mentioned price. It was NIB, all everything included, the rare "mint" gun.

I searched Gunbroker back for 90 days on old sales and noticed Lawman(s) only, no box etc. in excellent condition were selling for anywhere from $550.00 to about $700.00.

I inquired at the Colt forum and from a couple of seemingly knowledgeable collectors they said it was worth $800.00 to $1,000.00 TO SOMEONE WHO WOULD REALLY WANT IT.

I made a $50.00 profit on what I paid for it. So it's obvious I am never going to be a big time gun dealer!!

I'm thinking you made a great buy.

I do not trust the prices in any "book" because the internet has skewed prices as many posters here have mentioned.

However current prices of many firearms are all over the place and its simply a fact of the market conditions. They too are all over the place.

I bought an almost mint M15-4 (gun only) last year for $350.00 including shipping and transfer fees. I think that's a good price for any modern .38 Special especially a M15. But I was lucky and anyone else interested was "out-of-town" evidentally.

The "book" is out of date almost as it is published. But any guide is helpful.

I do not grieve over what other folks want for their treasures. If I want it and we can agree on a price I buy it. If not I walk away.

Another factor in my buying philosphy is that I am 59. How much longer are my eyes going to allow me to shoot open sighted revolvers? And...how much longer will I have good health to do so. As such I might pay a bit more than the average person because I am unwilling to wait a year or more for another chance at another gun.

I do believe, as long as Hollywood continues to make "revolverless" movies that revolvers will not stay in vogue. And, as many of our older revolver shooters and collectors pass on we will see many collections of fine revolvers come up for sale and the market might get flooded. As such the S&W that you or I paid $800.00 for because of this "internet thing" will go down in price.

I hope this happens later instead of sooner because I want to liquidate MY collection before all the other guys do!

 

[Wingmaster]

I buy quite a few guns. I sell very few.
If I see a gun I am interested in, I look it over. If it is priced where I think it is a fair deal, I buy it. If it is too high, I walk.
I am not much of a dickerer.

Wingmaster

 

[Frank46]

I've seen dealers here in louisiana sell used guns for almost the store bought price. Their's is gold and your's is junk. I almost sold a browning takedown 22 to a dealer who was leafing through some used gun values book. Then he told me that the buttstock was not origional to the rest of the rifle. So his purchase price came down about a $100 bucks. At which point I thanked him for his time and me and the rifle went our way. Granted you do find some good buys. I like 44 specials. Have 3 of them. 24-3 3"bbl round grip a lew horton gun I paid $840 for. The 24-3 with 4" bbl (the rare one) paid $750 for. The 624 w/6.5" bbl that one cost $650. I find that the value of handguns to be all over the place. Whereas one revolver will sell here for $600 over in texas it may well sell for $700. And in another state $550. It all depends on the economic situation in the state your in. I spotted the 24-3 w/3" bbl sitting in a glass encased display. I asked if it was a lew horton gun and was told it was. Weak moment on my part as I love 44 specials. 15 minutes later it was mine. And yes sometimes I buy the poor unwanted scratched up, dinged such as my model 15. I wanted a 38 special w/iron sights and I got one. lockup is good, no endshake, and no problems. Plus it came with a target hammer and target trigger.
go fighure???. Since I bought the three 44 specials I have not seen anything like that in a long time. Some days you're the bug and sometimes you're the windsheild. Frank