Used Performance Center Semi-auto Values

[TTSH]

Not to argue with you, but just this week, a very nice example 3913TSW pre-rail that was listed on a couple of sites (not GB) sold within a day or two for $750. One of our members here bought it, and he got a heckuva good buy. Only reason I didn't go for it is because I don't have any 9mm stuff -- but I still gave it a thought....

Yeah, one infamous MA owner tried to sell his as-new "pre-rail" 3913TSW for over a year at something like $900 to $1K. It didn't go anywhere until he dropped the price down into the $700-$800 neighborhood... then it sold fairly quickly.

It doesn't matter to me 'cause even $700 is out of my price range. I'm strictly a "plain vanilla" 3rd Gen kind of guy.

A gun is only worth what you can buy it for or what you can get for it. Believing it is worth a whole lot more just because you saw a crazy price once on GB is kind of deceiving yourself. Although you never know unless you try. You could get lucky!

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I know the market have watched it, and no way is my piece going for 700-800 dollars. No way, I kind of want to set a classified ad up for it just to see if it can be repeated. All of you with Performance Center pieces should want the values go up, the more TSWs and PC guns sell for higher prices the better your gun values are.

I do not have to sell, did not want to sell it. Basically it was just me looking to see if it could be done again. Honestly it you all can buy the type of condition my 3913tsw is in for that price then you should buy any and all you find. Somehow I would imagine the books would be missing, the condition would not be there, maybe other parts that originally included would not be there.

None of you and none of the people in this thread are buyers for it. Nor were you buyers of my other pieces which according to you all are astronomically top of the world marks. I have seen the 500-800 tacticals on GA and GB. They do not hold a candle, but good luck with your searches and purchases. None of you will ever own a 99 percent 3913TSW, brand new in box.

Good Luck.

 

[AveragEd]

I don't blame you a bit for trying to get all your gun might be worth. You never know when the right buyer has the right amount of money burning a hole in his checkbook at the right time.

During the past two years, I bought two S&Ws in which I had been interested, a Doug Keonig PC1911 in .38 Super with its aluminum case and all the goodies and a Model 686-3 National Match, a one of 500 piece made in 1989 for Bill Davis, a well-known revolver specialist, that came to me as the gun only. I might have paid a little too much for both but those two guns don't pop up on the used gun market often and both were in like-new condition. I wanted them and had the extra cash so I'm happy. They'll only become more valuable as time goes on.

I shot them both yesterday as a matter of fact and the revolver is more accurate than the 1911 but the Super still has its fiber-optic front sight in place and it is harder to hold a repeatable, defined sight picture with that glowing blob instead of the revolver's Patridge (which I have for the 1911 and should get around to installing).

Ed

 

[Sevens]

All of you with Performance Center pieces should want the values go up, the more TSWs and PC guns sell for higher prices the better your gun values are.

Ever pause, take a breath, maybe re-read what you post and consider that your view is simply that and not necessarily what others would subscribe to?

Seems like the value of what you have is number 1 on your list. This ends up as a nice payoff if it gets stolen or you plan to retire to the Cayman Islands on all your gun investments.

Me? I love to shoot them. I also like to chase MORE of them. Plotting, hoping and praying that all the prices on PC guns climb to the heavens gets me NOWHERE. I'm not selling mine, I'm trying to add more of them.

I missed your epic, original 3913 thread tragedy. Lucky for me -- but it kind of looks like we get to re-live it right here in this thread. Seemingly endless... all for a carry gun that's not even Performance Center.

To be crystal clear -- your method and view of what a handgun should be to YOU is absolutely, without question-- correct. For YOU.

To me, it's ludicrous to sit around hoping the finest series of semi-auto pistols made all rocket in price/value, making it nearly impossible for me to get more -- and making it a worry to wear down or possibly break one of the ones I already have and love.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Sure my view is mine, there is not doubt in my mind that I could go to GA right now and post pics of the 3913tsw on there and get what I am saying.of course then I would have to deliver the firearm to whoever bought it. I typical will only buy pristine condition rare pieces but I do buy shooters and shoot them but as more and more rare third gens get beat up and carried, it will only increase the rare tactical and performance mdels values.

It is better to find a better buyer for those rare pristine models it means that it will be taken care of after the sell,

 

[bigggbbruce]

My advice is to always get them as cheap as you can. Don't let emotion drive the wallet out of your pocket.

Emotion has driven prices through the roof.

 

[ericlw]

ericlw That would be me who owns the black PC 45CQB Prototype. When I sell it, it will be on Gunbroker. I am not a non-profit and will be taking full advantage of the craziness that happens on that site.

Having the copy of the American Handgunner magazine it appeared in with it, is better than a Jinks letter. Regards 18DAI

I might be willing to pay you a craziness price if you can wait a few months for me to find a new job.lol

 

[James&theGiant1911]

We should all be in agreement that the PC shorty 40 and 45 are 1800 - 2200 guns. Sine this thread is about performance center models; however, the tactical models share some craftsmanship and lineage to the performance center models.

 

[TTSH]

We should all be in agreement that the PC shorty 40 and 45 are 1800 - 2200 guns.

Dang! I knew I shoulda bought that Shorty 40 for $899 when I had the chance!

 

[Sevens]

Haha, yeah, and the TSW models certainly have direct lineage from the 3rd Gens which obviously were drawn from the upgraded 2nd Gens which no doubt came directly from the 39, 59, pre-38 and 147A, etc etc.

Some are production guns, made by the thousands. The PC guns were built by the hundreds -- some less.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

No kidding, so now I know the game. You all have an idea of what a gun is worth based off beaters selling on GA or GB. So what about the 2200 dollar Shorty 40/45 that sells or what about the 3913tsw that sells for 1250. Obviously to the Op and like I said prices are every where because they are based on condition. Which is why I would never buy the smith and Wesson guide it is out dated before it hits the streets. Ever see a 71 cuda sell for 18 grand for a beater driver vs 50 grand for a restored one. Same concept

 

[ragman]

In regards to the 952-2 6 inch that sold for $6,525. I was in contact with the seller during and after that auction. I stated then that he would hold the record for a long time. I think he was the most surprised of all at the sale price.

I have a 952-2LS heavy slide and would love to think it is worth very big bucks but it will not bring but a little over 1/2 of that. With that said I can always hope for someone with deep pockets. Certain model guns are like cars,you buy them and hold on to them and hope you picked the right one. Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't.

 

[Sevens]

No kidding, so now I know the game. You all have an idea of what a gun is worth based off beaters selling on GA or GB.

A gun is worth what the buyer and seller agree upon. Sometimes, the buyers spend some time arguing their role and the seller waits to see where they end up.

You may continue wishing that some magic formula is possible but in the real world, it's not. Changes with every transaction.

 

[vigil617]

Congratulations, OP, on the latest addition to your growing stable of production and PC S&W semi-autos!

You're nudging that barometer upward on the NIB Third Gen PC 45s, and I for one think that's a good thing.

We have to acknowledge that many of these are at the very least uncommon, and some truly rare, so seeing the prices approaching the $2K level is not really surprising given the quality in addition to the low numbers.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

The new performance center pieces are nice too, and a lot more reasonably priced. I do not know or understand why these older PC models bring huge money for what they are. The newer PC models in 1911 and revolvers seem to be priced better than the older stuff. Maybe it is some sort of perceived scarcity for them or maybe the market is larger and the amount of those pieces is small.

Either way it seems to be a good thing for the older pieces, but before I would buy a huge PC 45 or 40, I would get a Nighthawk or Wilson combat. I have a Nighthawk performance commander model and they are a class above any performance center. There has to be limits to what I consider price/ value that is above what the PC models were ever intended to do.

 

[BAM-BAM]

IIRC............

the Shorty 40s were the most common of the PC guns produced in the early to mid-90s.......everyone needed/wanted a .40 vs. a 9 or .45.....

Makes me wonder about the less common PC guns like the "SD" 9mm,40s and .356s.......(edit I own an SD-9 one of only 179 IIRC)

The unmarked and unnamed PC 9mm's based on the 6906/04 models.... (edit: I own two, both reverse two-tone, that match nothing exactly as described in the SCS&W .....have carried one as my hi-cap compact concealed carry gun since about 95/96..... who knew..... kind of like the guys who actually used their RMs in the 30s)

The DPA 5906s.....that had a few but small (?) runs........(edit; mine is serial # DPA00xx)

The Recon .45s........

and others from the same period.

 

[BAM-BAM]

The new performance center pieces are nice too, and a lot more reasonably priced. I do not know or understand why these older PC models bring huge money for what they are. The newer PC models in 1911 and revolvers seem to be priced better than the older stuff. Maybe it is some sort of perceived scarcity for them or maybe the market is larger and the amount of those pieces is small.

Either way it seems to be a good thing for the older pieces, but before I would buy a huge PC 45 or 40, I would get a Nighthawk or Wilson combat. I have a Nighthawk performance commander model and they are a class above any performance center. There has to be limits to what I consider price/ value that is above what the PC models were ever intended to do.

There have been several threads that equate the older (90s) PC guns with hand built custom guns...... designed and built by the PC's founding old school master "gunsmiths"...... while newer PC guns are more about unique "looks" than being true custom built guns.

In the 90s one of the ideas I heard floated about PC guns was that rather than having to buy a "stock" gun then send it out to be torn apart and customized...(think ASP or Trapper guns of the 80s).....

the PC shop used some stock and some custom parts of their own design to build "custom Smiths" from the ground up at about 2X the cost of a factory model but still costing less than half of, for example, having an ASP made from a 39 ..........


IMHO the "old PC shop" has a lot in common with shops like Wilson today.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Shorty 40s were limited to 500 pieces each, my Mk3 is one of 500. It is pretty limited. I have heard the 45s and 9s are the same case for the Performance Center models.

Well, I am not spending the money for a Wilson Combat or Nighthawk on a Performance Center smith. To someone it might meet the threshold for me it does not. I love limited pieces and rare guns as much as the next fella but regardless of what you opinion of them are. No Performance Center 45 holds a candle to a good Nighthawk/ Wilson as similar no 9mm PC can hold a candle to Novak's Hi Power 9s.

When a Smith goes for those prices that is where I am spending my money. Like the people wanting to sell a 9mm ASP or 652 for 4000-6500 dollars. They might eventually get what they want but how long does that take?

You have people on this forum from both threads whining about paying 1500-2500 for a older PC gun when some of the new ones sell in that range. The craftsmanship on the custom guns is so much better than the older Smith and Wesson pieces. I once had a Colt Special Combat, which is Colt's attempt to compete with Wilson/ Nighthawk well for a few hundred more you can get a real custom and not a gun which is produced in bunches then customized by a shop to make it a custom firearm.

 

[BAM-BAM]

LOL...... according to "Inflation Calculator" a $900-1000 PC gun bought in 1996 would be going for $1,360-$1,500.......today.....

I got my 4 between about 94-98 used and new but for ....IIRC all/each less than $650; and in my opinion the PC guns are a few steps above factory standards. ( One local Police Supply/LGS had quit a collection... which didn't sell ...... so after 2/3 years in inventory they wanted them sold/gone)

Having been on Wilson's site........he has "In Stock Firearms" so I'd guess he makes batches of his "standard" products....... along with "one off" custom orders.............heck he has Beretta make him 1000 gun runs of his $1,100-1,200 "Custom" Beretta 92s!

All I was saying above is that; old PC designed upgrades to factory guns then built those guns from scratch..... much like Wilson or other "Custom" gunsmiths.........

Back in the day.......new PC guns "sold" for $800-1000 new ...... while Wilson and Novack's price points IIRC, were more like $1,500-2000.

For me I wouldn't pay the prices being asked for some of the old PC Smiths....... but I'm not a "deep pockets collector" trying to fill out his/her collection.

I've passed on Bill Wilson's Beretta's my Factory Elite IIs are good enough for me. I'd love a Novack Browning HP...... but while I'd have great pride in ownership.....I wouldn't carry it ...... so it's not worth it to me to pay full retail, or a premium, for one!

Too each their own......................

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Gee, the Performance Center guns from the 90s now have asking prices well into the 3-4-5 grand range. Look at the Anacondas, it is what it is. All I was saying is it is really hard for me to give that kind of money for 20-30-40 year old Smiths when that much buys a lot better guns.

I pretty much have all the guns, I wanted in my collection. Nothing really catches my eyes any more other than the Smith Performance wheel guns. I really like Thunder Ranches and R8s a lot.