Using rifle powder in a pistol

[MichiganScott]

The old IMR company used to publish data using rifle powders in pistol cases. It was strange to see IMR-4350 used in the .44 Mag with a muzzle velocity just fast enough to push the bullet out of the barrel. This was way before the S&W 500 came out.

This has been discussed a couple of time already.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/417322-rifle-powder-handguns.html

 

[Rule3]

Accurate has data for the 500 S&W

Their site is: Accurate Powders You can download their Reloading Guide version 6 right from the site.

As posted above. AA has a load using 5744. A "fast" powder(for rifle)

Glance at a powder burn rate chart and look at the recommended powders for the 500 SW and then for rifle powders like your 7828 powder.

Notice anything??

Spend the $25 and buy some different powder.

Rifle << Accurate Powders

https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2015-2016.pdf

http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web-1.pdf

 

[gwpercle]

ONLY USE PUBLISHED LOAD DATA !
If you can't find load data for the powder you have , there is a reason, the powder is not suitable.
Don't press your luck at the loading bench, it's not worth it ....Load Safe.
Gary

 

[fredj338]

If there is no data from the powder manufacturer for the cartridge you wish to load, then that particular powder is not to be used in that cartridge. Period.
When you say "lots of rifle powder" what do you mean? Lots of different types?
Do you own a good reloading manual? This one is a good one -
Amazon.com : Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors

I'm not trying to be offensive but your question is a question a person who is up to speed on reloading would even ask.

I will respectfully disagree. Just because the manuf hasn't bothered to test a given powder/bullet combo does NOT mean it is unsafe, just untested. Just about any powder can be used to some extent in any caliber. It just requires some extrapolation. Not for beginners, but many of us do wildcat reloading, no data, so we extrapolate all the time.
For the 500, the only rifle powder that are likely to give any useful results are the uberfast rifle powders at the beginning of the burn rate chart for rifle powders. That would be AA1680 or maybe RL7 & 4198. After all, these do fine in the lower pressure 45-70, rifle or handgun. Anything slower isn't going to do much but burn a lot of powder. Use 4227 data & work it up in 2/10gr increments. Of course, YOU ASSUME ALL LIABILITY for any load development you do but that is how I would approach it.
I wouldn't press my luck with something like 7828, a fav of mine for over bore rifle rounds, but you are tempting a hangfire or sim with a powder that slow in a large bore. It could go bang for sure, but the results would be poor. Of course you only have to answer to yourself. Many have experimented with such things just because. If we survive, it becomes a learning experience. BE safe.

 

[Rogeronimo]

I'm certain that I have an opinion on this.

 

[montana500]

The old IMR company used to publish data using rifle powders in pistol cases. It was strange to see IMR-4350 used in the .44 Mag with a muzzle velocity just fast enough to push the bullet out of the barrel. This was way before the S&W 500 came out.

This has been discussed a couple of time already.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/417322-rifle-powder-handguns.html

4350 has been my goto powder for over 20 years, mostly for my 30-06. I didn't know it had any pistol application.

 

[ruggyh]

Rifle powder can be used in the 500 S&W.
PM with email address (you cannot attach anything to PMs here) and I will send you John Ross write up with his tested data which includes a number of rifle powders.

I have tested a number of them and all have perform as described in his write up including there use in a lever gun.

Good luck and be safe
Ruggy

 

[hdwhit]

If rifle powder worked in the 500 S&W it would have been in manuals by now.

It is.

As I previously posted, Accurate has published load data for the cartridge in version 6 of their manual (available on their website) and one of their powders is what we would traditionally call a "rifle powder".

 

[TheoW]

This is true........

THERE ARE OLD RELOADERS ......THERE ARE BOLD RELOADERS ....BUT THERE ARE NO OLD,BOLD RELOADERS!!!!!!

 

[fredj338]

THERE ARE OLD RELOADERS ......THERE ARE BOLD RELOADERS ....BUT THERE ARE NO OLD,BOLD RELOADERS!!!!!!

Actually there are quite a few of us around.
While it is always prudent to follow book data, the more exp you get reloading, the more you understand the dynamics & safe extrapolation is possible. Nothing wrong with sticking to book data, until you cant find the components in the book or you get into a cartridge with little or no data.

 

[buck460XVR]

I will respectfully disagree. Just because the manuf hasn't bothered to test a given powder/bullet combo does NOT mean it is unsafe, just untested. Just about any powder can be used to some extent in any caliber. It just requires some extrapolation..

I have to respectfully disagree to this. Powder/bullet manufacturers will test any powder they think is appropriate and will work well. They just do not publish data for powders tested that do not perform well or are not really suited for the application. This is the case for the .500 mag. and using rifle powders. Can one use a rifle powder? Sure, and the fastest rifle powders like IMR4227 are a prime example. It is my go to powder in .460. Problem is, when you go to slower rifle powders, you can't get enough of it in a case to give anything more than mediocre .500 mag performance. Why the 'ell does someone buy a .500 mag if they are not looking for performance.

Buy an appropriate powder that is proven to work well for the application/caliber and move on. Sending bullets downrange with an inappropriate powder that only gives mediocre performance is just a waste of good bullets.

 

[gwpercle]

I will respectfully disagree. Just because the manuf hasn't bothered to test a given powder/bullet combo does NOT mean it is unsafe, just untested. Just about any powder can be used to some extent in any caliber. It just requires some extrapolation. Not for beginners, but many of us do wildcat reloading, no data, so we extrapolate all the time.
For the 500, the only rifle powder that are likely to give any useful results are the uberfast rifle powders at the beginning of the burn rate chart for rifle powders. That would be AA1680 or maybe RL7 & 4198. After all, these do fine in the lower pressure 45-70, rifle or handgun. Anything slower isn't going to do much but burn a lot of powder. Use 4227 data & work it up in 2/10gr increments. Of course, YOU ASSUME ALL LIABILITY for any load development you do but that is how I would approach it.
I wouldn't press my luck with something like 7828, a fav of mine for over bore rifle rounds, but you are tempting a hangfire or sim with a powder that slow in a large bore. It could go bang for sure, but the results would be poor. Of course you only have to answer to yourself. Many have experimented with such things just because. It we survive, it becomes a learning experience. BE safe.

People just starting in reloading are NOT going to assume any liability for their actions , it's always somebody else's fault.
The gun , the powder, the primer....but not themselves !Too much at risk and far too easy for them to make mistakes.

I wouldn't be telling a newbee to go on off in uncharted territory....
Just stick with published data untill you get experienced .

Gary

 

[Wise_A]

Like I said. Sometimes the data doesn't exist because the ballisticians tried it and found the results unsatisfactory or unsafe. Popular cartridge and a popular powder, but no data? Probably not a good mix.

Sometimes the data doesn't exist simply because the cartridge is too obscure. Factory ammo last manufactured in the island nation of Nauru during the German occupation? Brass must be ordered from a blind monk in rural Latvia? Powder was just released to the market last month? Probably the cartridge geeks didn't get around to it yet, or couldn't convince their bosses to buy a pressure barrel for it.

In this case, it's not about whether you can use some kind of rifle powder in .500 Magnum. It's about whether the OP can use the rifle powder he has in .500 Magnum. And given that it's a decently-documented cartridge, I would suggest that if there's no data for that powder, it's probably not the greatest idea in the world.

Powder is cheap.

 

[fredj338]

I have to respectfully disagree to this. Powder/bullet manufacturers will test any powder they think is appropriate and will work well. They just do not publish data for powders tested that do not perform well or are not really suited for the application. This is the case for the .500 mag. and using rifle powders. Can one use a rifle powder? Sure, and the fastest rifle powders like IMR4227 are a prime example. It is my go to powder in .460. Problem is, when you go to slower rifle powders, you can't get enough of it in a case to give anything more than mediocre .500 mag performance. Why the 'ell does someone buy a .500 mag if they are not looking for performance.

Buy an appropriate powder that is proven to work well for the application/caliber and move on. Sending bullets downrange with an inappropriate powder that only gives mediocre performance is just a waste of good bullets.

Your assumption, which is all it is, is incorrect. Look at any given manual. You will find say a powder in 9mm for 115gr & 147gr & not 124gr? So somehow the powder is suitable for 115gr & 147gr & not 124gr?? There are nearly infinite combinations of powder & bullet & the bullet/powder guys are not going to test them all nor even publish them all. Why there is little to no data with plated bullets or coated bullets or heavier bullets than usually used (160gr in 9mm for example).
Yes, extrapolation of data is not for newb reloaders. It can be done safely though. Far too many of us do it & have done it for decades with safe, good results. There are about 110 diff powders suitable for reloading all handgun rounds from 380 to 500. Most manuals will cover about 12, maybe 15 each. They just aren't going to test 20-30 diff powders, not gonna happen. Hell, they don't even update their data from edition to edition, just copy the old data, even though powders do change a bit over the years & lot to lot variations. They have even dropped some of the oldie but goodies like Unique. Certainly doesn't mean Unique is no longer suitable.

 

[fredj338]

People just starting in reloading are NOT going to assume any liability for their actions , it's always somebody else's fault.
The gun , the powder, the primer....but not themselves !Too much at risk and far too easy for them to make mistakes.

I wouldn't be telling a newbee to go on off in uncharted territory....
Just stick with published data untill you get experienced .

Gary

We agree, but the blanket statements of follow the manual period or old & bold reloaders is just ignorance IMO. Some people can drive a car safely beyond the speed limit, some can not even get on the fwy @ the speed limit. All fine, but we ALL go off book whenever we use ANY component NOT listed. It's just a matter of degree.

 

[montana500]

Elmer Keith was an early pioneer in smokeless powder. I was surprised when one of his books mentioned he would sometimes combine black powder with smokeless.

In one of my reloading manuals, I still looking for it, is a list of 100s of powders and their burn rates. I suppose that is where one might start in using a rifle powder, with data from a similar burn rate of a pistol powder.

 

[Wise_A]

Two bits.

(1) Elmer Keith knew a lot about reloading. He also blew up a lot of guns.

(2) Don't assume burn rate charts are linear. Just because Powder A is right next to Powder B, doesn't necessarily mean they're alike. Powders 10-15 can all have similar burning rates, and Powder 16 can be much slower.

 

[hdwhit]

THERE ARE OLD RELOADERS ......THERE ARE BOLD RELOADERS ....BUT THERE ARE NO OLD,BOLD RELOADERS!!!!!!

I don't see where this helped answer the OP's question at all.

Second, this is an aphorism originally about pilots, not reloaders.

Third, as some others have already said, the aphorism is not necessarily true. I, for example, have been reloading wildcat cartridges with ZERO reliable published reloading data for upwards of thirty years and I am still alive and reloading.

 

[reddog81]

Just because powders have similar burn rates doesn't mean their charges would be anywhere close to one another. How would you guess what kind of charge to use?

I don't understand how you can buy a S&W 500 but can't afford the appropriate powder

 

[Wise_A]

Well, people are cheap and lazy. But I was giving him the benefit of the doubt and just figuring that the nearest LGS with a powder selection was 150 miles away or something.