montana500
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I've got lots of rifle powder, and would like to use some in my S&W 500. How does one go about this if there is no load data for this?
Using rifle powder in a pistol
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I figger there must be a reason if one cannot find rifle powder data for a handgun cartridge. But, I would contact the powder manufacturer and ask them. They may have an acceptable/safe answer for your powder...
hdwhit
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Accurate has data for the 500 S&W
Their site is: Accurate Powders You can download their Reloading Guide version 6 right from the site.
Their site is: Accurate Powders You can download their Reloading Guide version 6 right from the site.
SOME rifle powders.....
Some rifle powders, like SR 4759 can be used in pistols. I believe that if a powder lies near the slower pistol powder range it may be usable, if not suitable. One problem you may run into is inconsistent burning.
IF I were to approach something like that, I'd put a tiny load in a case and fire it, hoping the bullet would clear the barrel. If it clears the barrel without blowing up the gun, you are in the ball park. If it doesn't, pound out the bullet and try a slightly bigger charge. I think I'd put the gun in a vise and pull the trigger with a string. I know this sounds unsafe and bizarre, but it is going out on a limb and I'd get a beat up similar gun to start with. It's entirely probably that performance will be poor. I don't have the resources to do risky experiments, but if you do, at least approach it safely as possible with the idea that you can destroy a gun and/or yourself.
Some rifle powders, like SR 4759 can be used in pistols. I believe that if a powder lies near the slower pistol powder range it may be usable, if not suitable. One problem you may run into is inconsistent burning.
IF I were to approach something like that, I'd put a tiny load in a case and fire it, hoping the bullet would clear the barrel. If it clears the barrel without blowing up the gun, you are in the ball park. If it doesn't, pound out the bullet and try a slightly bigger charge. I think I'd put the gun in a vise and pull the trigger with a string. I know this sounds unsafe and bizarre, but it is going out on a limb and I'd get a beat up similar gun to start with. It's entirely probably that performance will be poor. I don't have the resources to do risky experiments, but if you do, at least approach it safely as possible with the idea that you can destroy a gun and/or yourself.
K-framer
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The 500 S&W is not a cartridge with which I have had any experience, so I cannot offer any specific advice.
What I can say is that using rifle powder to sub for pistol powder will, in most cases, give very substandard performance. I'm sure that the 500 takes large charges of (for pistol) slow "magnum" powder. To get anything like effective results, you'll need to stay as close to the burn speed of normal 500 powders. So, the rifle powder would need to be a very fast (rifle) powder. Trying a medium to slow rifle powder will most likely be a perfect waste of time.
In addition, rifle powders, though slower than pistol powders, can be more energetic....making their employment in a cartridge for which they were not designed anything from a problem to a real danger.
If NO data is available for the powder(s) you contemplate using....there may well be a good reason for that. Powders do not always behave as expected, when used outside of normal perameters.
What I can say is that using rifle powder to sub for pistol powder will, in most cases, give very substandard performance. I'm sure that the 500 takes large charges of (for pistol) slow "magnum" powder. To get anything like effective results, you'll need to stay as close to the burn speed of normal 500 powders. So, the rifle powder would need to be a very fast (rifle) powder. Trying a medium to slow rifle powder will most likely be a perfect waste of time.
In addition, rifle powders, though slower than pistol powders, can be more energetic....making their employment in a cartridge for which they were not designed anything from a problem to a real danger.
If NO data is available for the powder(s) you contemplate using....there may well be a good reason for that. Powders do not always behave as expected, when used outside of normal perameters.
If there is no data from the powder manufacturer for the cartridge you wish to load, then that particular powder is not to be used in that cartridge. Period.
When you say "lots of rifle powder" what do you mean? Lots of different types?
Do you own a good reloading manual? This one is a good one -
[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-49th-Edition-Reloading-Handbook/dp/B001MYEU0E"]Amazon.com : Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors[/ame]
I'm not trying to be offensive but your question is a question a person who is up to speed on reloading would even ask.
When you say "lots of rifle powder" what do you mean? Lots of different types?
Do you own a good reloading manual? This one is a good one -
[ame="https://www.amazon.com/Lyman-49th-Edition-Reloading-Handbook/dp/B001MYEU0E"]Amazon.com : Lyman 49th Edition Reloading Handbook : Gunsmithing Tools And Accessories : Sports & Outdoors[/ame]
I'm not trying to be offensive but your question is a question a person who is up to speed on reloading would even ask.
Cdog
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I typed in several responses to this thread, none of which I would allow myself to post...
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forestswin
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Those rifles powders and empty 500 S&W cases are talking to you huh?
Fight the temptation.
sometimes Exlax looks like chocolate!
$30 for a pound of appropriate pistol powder will get you up and running
Fight the temptation.
sometimes Exlax looks like chocolate!
$30 for a pound of appropriate pistol powder will get you up and running
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SLT223
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Im going to try address the characteristics of rifle vs pistol powder and where you might run into a problem. Rifle is slow, pistol is fast. Slow pistol powder like 110 and 4227 are fast for rifle. Typically the slower the burn rate the more pressure the powder needs to burn. While 500 S&W has a relatively high opersting pressure, Im pretty sure it comes in short of .30-06, 300WM, etc. If you use a true slow burning rifle powder, I think youre going to get squibs and the ones that launch lead will also launch enough unburned powder to sandblast your forearms and face. Stick to slow pistol powders for a good burn.
Im guessing this how things would go if you worked your way up shy of hitting 60,000ish psi
Im guessing this how things would go if you worked your way up shy of hitting 60,000ish psi
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$20 or $30 is cheaper than buying a new gun.
It is cheaper than buying new fingers and eyes.
It is cheaper than explaining how you came to kill a bystander.
Reloading is a serious business. You cannot take shortcuts. Shortcuts, universally, are a quick route to blowing up a gun and getting people hurt.
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If there is no data for the thing you are contemplating, then don't do it. There's a reason why the numbers don't exist.
Now, if you have a Model of 1893 French 8.5mm Ordnance revolver, and cannot find data for that cartridge with, say, BE-86, then it's safe to say that the data doesn't exist because nobody felt like doing the development for you and the two other guys who own one.
But .500 S&W Magnum isn't an obscure cartridge by any stretch of the imagination.
It is cheaper than buying new fingers and eyes.
It is cheaper than explaining how you came to kill a bystander.
Reloading is a serious business. You cannot take shortcuts. Shortcuts, universally, are a quick route to blowing up a gun and getting people hurt.
---
If there is no data for the thing you are contemplating, then don't do it. There's a reason why the numbers don't exist.
Now, if you have a Model of 1893 French 8.5mm Ordnance revolver, and cannot find data for that cartridge with, say, BE-86, then it's safe to say that the data doesn't exist because nobody felt like doing the development for you and the two other guys who own one.
But .500 S&W Magnum isn't an obscure cartridge by any stretch of the imagination.
daniel lawecki
Member
If rifle powder worked in the 500 S&W it would have been in manuals by now. So please buy the powder used for this round don't try to reinvent the wheel.
Yes, it would help...
What kind of rifle powder are we talking about?
PS Alternative solution. Shoot more rifle rounds.
What kind of rifle powder are we talking about?
PS Alternative solution. Shoot more rifle rounds.
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DWalt
Member
None but the fastest rifle powders (such as H110, 2400, or IMR 4227) would work satisfactorily in the .500. Slower powders would likely not be dangerous but would likely burn incompletely, producing very low muzzle velocities.
cadmike
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Using a Phillips screw driver on a flat head screw does not work well.
OP
montana500
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IMR 7828, I have in abundance. It is a slow burning powder. I was thinking if slow then maybe a lot goes to waste in muzzle flash and the 500 would be fine.
OP
montana500
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H110 is a pistol powder for magnum pistols, 357 44 454 500, that I've looked at.
BruceM
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IMR 7828 is too slow for many rifle cartridges so I don't understand how you could feel that it would work in a pistol round, even in a large case like the .500. Even if there is publish rifle data for it doesn't necessarily make it a good choice for that particular round.
Handloading is one endeavor where trying to fit a square peg in a round hole is not a good idea.
Bruce
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montana500
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I've several rifles that are perfect for the 7828, in fact most of them. Makes sense to me that slow burning is safer then fast for safety.
DWalt
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H110 started out as a rifle powder - the standard for the .30 Carbine, also used for many small case capacity rifle loads, such as the .22 Hornet and the 218 Bee. One of the best choices for the .300 Blackout. And of course it is also used in many Magnum handgun loads.
muddocktor
Member
montana500, 7828 is way too slow for any pistol cartridge and is way too slow for many rifle cartridges too. Don't even think of trying it out on the S&W 500 cartridge. That powder is much more appropriate for magnum class rifle cartridges. If you don't already have some, buy yourself a few reloading manuals such as Lyman, Lee, Speer, etc. Also your powder manufacturers have loading data too and are a very good online resource for loading data for the cartridges you are interested in.
As to powders appropriate for the 500, Alliant's 300MP, 2400 and Power Pistol have data from Alliant. With Western (Accurate and Ramshot), there are 6 powders used in listed load data. With Hodgdon/IMR/Win load data, there is 7 different powders listed with load data on their online site.
As to powders appropriate for the 500, Alliant's 300MP, 2400 and Power Pistol have data from Alliant. With Western (Accurate and Ramshot), there are 6 powders used in listed load data. With Hodgdon/IMR/Win load data, there is 7 different powders listed with load data on their online site.
MichiganScott
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The old IMR company used to publish data using rifle powders in pistol cases. It was strange to see IMR-4350 used in the .44 Mag with a muzzle velocity just fast enough to push the bullet out of the barrel. This was way before the S&W 500 came out.
This has been discussed a couple of time already.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/417322-rifle-powder-handguns.html
This has been discussed a couple of time already.
http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/417322-rifle-powder-handguns.html
As posted above. AA has a load using 5744. A "fast" powder(for rifle)
Glance at a powder burn rate chart and look at the recommended powders for the 500 SW and then for rifle powders like your 7828 powder.
Notice anything??
Spend the $25 and buy some different powder.
Rifle << Accurate Powders
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn Rates - 2015-2016.pdf
http://www.accuratepowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/WesternLoadGuide1-2016_Web-1.pdf
gwpercle
Member
ONLY USE PUBLISHED LOAD DATA !
If you can't find load data for the powder you have , there is a reason, the powder is not suitable.
Don't press your luck at the loading bench, it's not worth it ....Load Safe.
Gary
If you can't find load data for the powder you have , there is a reason, the powder is not suitable.
Don't press your luck at the loading bench, it's not worth it ....Load Safe.
Gary
fredj338
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I will respectfully disagree. Just because the manuf hasn't bothered to test a given powder/bullet combo does NOT mean it is unsafe, just untested. Just about any powder can be used to some extent in any caliber. It just requires some extrapolation. Not for beginners, but many of us do wildcat reloading, no data, so we extrapolate all the time.
For the 500, the only rifle powder that are likely to give any useful results are the uberfast rifle powders at the beginning of the burn rate chart for rifle powders. That would be AA1680 or maybe RL7 & 4198. After all, these do fine in the lower pressure 45-70, rifle or handgun. Anything slower isn't going to do much but burn a lot of powder. Use 4227 data & work it up in 2/10gr increments. Of course, YOU ASSUME ALL LIABILITY for any load development you do but that is how I would approach it.
I wouldn't press my luck with something like 7828, a fav of mine for over bore rifle rounds, but you are tempting a hangfire or sim with a powder that slow in a large bore. It could go bang for sure, but the results would be poor. Of course you only have to answer to yourself. Many have experimented with such things just because. If we survive, it becomes a learning experience. BE safe.
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Rogeronimo
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I'm certain that I have an opinion on this.
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montana500
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4350 has been my goto powder for over 20 years, mostly for my 30-06. I didn't know it had any pistol application.
ruggyh
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Rifle powder can be used in the 500 S&W.
PM with email address (you cannot attach anything to PMs here) and I will send you John Ross write up with his tested data which includes a number of rifle powders.
I have tested a number of them and all have perform as described in his write up including there use in a lever gun.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
PM with email address (you cannot attach anything to PMs here) and I will send you John Ross write up with his tested data which includes a number of rifle powders.
I have tested a number of them and all have perform as described in his write up including there use in a lever gun.
Good luck and be safe
Ruggy
hdwhit
Member
It is.
As I previously posted, Accurate has published load data for the cartridge in version 6 of their manual (available on their website) and one of their powders is what we would traditionally call a "rifle powder".
fredj338
Member
Actually there are quite a few of us around.
While it is always prudent to follow book data, the more exp you get reloading, the more you understand the dynamics & safe extrapolation is possible. Nothing wrong with sticking to book data, until you cant find the components in the book or you get into a cartridge with little or no data.
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