Using the S&W Governor as a self defense weapon ?

[Gulfecho]

Sorry, I missed out on this thread. Where did the skeptics go? Usually this topic brings much controversy. I load mine with 3 Federal 000 buck followed by 3 Lehigh Maximum Expansion modified .45 rounds made expressly for the Governor/Judge. The silence against the Governor on this thread is really quite disconcerting ?? I feel like I'm whispering.

 

[Muss Muggins]

As for the discs, I'd say they are completely and utterly in every single way inferior to round ball in reality. Ball and buckshot are virtually even, meaning they resist tumbling and even if they tumble in terminal performance, they are guaranteed to crush nearly identical cavities every time; the short flat disc runs the risk of flipping and presenting a least surface of resistance crush path which can actually minimize its effectiveness, i.e. you shoot a quarter at someone expecting it to crush a quarter size crush cavity but instead it flips sideways and instead cuts a disc path through that does very poor damage, and very little cavitation.

tl;dr Ball and long conical resist flipping at best in terminal ballistics, or in many cases can take advantage of it, whilst the short conical disk is at high risk of being flipped from its most destructive trajectory and face to the least. We don't even have to get into the lack of weight, and obviously it not only suffers from lack of sectional density but also stability.

If you are going to shoot 410 for multiple projectiles, 000 buckshot would appear to be the choice, and copper discs are a very poor choice.

Of course, nobody wants to reality test your theory about copper discs by standing at the end of my 20 foot hallway at 3 am, do they? I'll load all six the same for a valid evaluation . . .

 

[reddog81]

I don't know much about these guns. What size throats does he governor have? How much jump does a 45 Colt bullet make before entering the throat? What's the bore diameter on them? What size slugs/balls are in the handgun defense loads for .410?

 

[Brasky]

Before you go run out and buy one watch this:

[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0[/ame]

I understand it's a judge but it gives you an idea of the power of a 410 out of a short barrel. Hickok went to 00 buck before it would even penetrate a piece of thin air duct tubing at 7 yards. The spread on 00 buck at 7 yards is about a foot wide meaning any distance beyond that would result in praying that one hits the target.

Would it be good for varmints? Potentially but it's nothing I would want to bet my life on.

I would buy a small 38 special before I would buy this, unless the person shooting it is a horrible shot and needs that wide spread to hit anything

 

[Brasky]

Good lying around the house pistol. I've got two ACP, a slug, a triple copper disc, and two Long Colt in mine. As for the naysayers, and there will be plenty, I know I don't want to get shot with it . . .

I wouldn't want to get shot with a pellet gun either, but it would be my last choice to use if someone broke in my house.

Why the assortment of cartridges? Unsure of which will actually do the job?

 

[Gulfecho]

It could suffice as a self-defense weapon, but the same can be said about pretty much any handgun. There are much better choices available. When there are as many naysayers(including nearly every professional defensive shooting instructor) as there are regarding the Governor(and Taurus Judge), I think it wise to take notice as there are likely very good reasons for the opposition even if you don't understand it.

I don't know about "naysayers, including nearly every professional shooting instructor", that seems a bit outlandish. I have seen many whom endorse the .410/.45 revolver as well as ballistics tests that illustrate its lethality. The Judge/Governor originally received poor reviews due to improper choices in ammunition during their conception. Fast forward to 2016 and there are a myriad of potent self defense platform loads available for these revolvers.

 

[Ghlover]

I have the Taurus Judge and love it. Bird shot is fine for snakes and scaring varmints but for anything else #4 buck is the minimum. They make plenty of loads designed for handguns including Hornady Critical Defense 410 Triple Defense. It starts with a 41 caliber FTX Slug followed by two 35 caliber round balls T 750 fps and 294 ft-lb. I don't think you want to get hit with that. And that's only the 2.5" round. There are many other rounds designed for a handgun that are shown in many YouTube videos. The Lehigh Defense Maximum Expansion comes to mind as being almost as long as the 410 shells and expands to almost an inch. You really need to watch the YouTube video. There are many other great loads featured on YouTube as well so before you make your decision, get all the facts. Mine is a blast to shoot and everyone that I let shoot mine thinks so too. Including a young lady.

 

[Whitwabit]

Before you go run out and buy one watch this:

The Judge - YouTube

I understand it's a judge but it gives you an idea of the power of a 410 out of a short barrel. Hickok went to 00 buck before it would even penetrate a piece of thin air duct tubing at 7 yards. The spread on 00 buck at 7 yards is about a foot wide meaning any distance beyond that would result in praying that one hits the target.

Would it be good for varmints? Potentially but it's nothing I would want to bet my life on.

I would buy a small 38 special before I would buy this, unless the person shooting it is a horrible shot and needs that wide spread to hit anything

Wouldn't use buckshot for a self defense round .. but the self defense rounds he shot looked like they did very well and grouping was better then I though at 7 yards .. 4 rounds the equivalent of a 32 round hitting someone at the same time in a group the size of a softball .. I would think a couple of rounds of that on target would do the job ..

 

[Golddollar]

I was lucky enough to find a barely used Governor. The double action is one of the smoothest I've seen in a production gun. Definitely a lot lighter than my other midsized Smith & Wesson .45. Of course, the best scenario would be the sight of 6 big holes bringing proceedings to a quiet halt.

 

[Rpg]

I hope you got a great deal on your governor.

I wouldn't have one.

So many better choices for sd.

Too big for what it can do.

Doesn't do anything well.

 

[rwsmith]

Well that is one factor...

From the end of my hallway, good enough to make any aggressor decide that he/she has something better to do somewhere else . . .

With all the different ammunition going off, the perp will likely assume that he's walked into an ambush by a platoon of soldiers.

I think those that shoot small game, pests or are around snakes could find one useful. I'm just not one of those people. There is no reason why it wouldn't make a good house gun.
If you want to carry it, fine, too. It may raise questions though about why you needed to carry a shotgun the size of a pistol.

 

[Gulfecho]

With all the different ammunition going off, the perp will likely assume that he's walked into an ambush by a platoon of soldiers.

I think those that shoot small game, pests or are around snakes could find one useful. I'm just not one of those people. There is no reason why it wouldn't make a good house gun.
If you want to carry it, fine, too. It may raise questions though about why you needed to carry a shotgun the size of a pistol.

The reason one would want to carry a shotgun the size of a pistol is that you would be sending the equivalent of 4 copper plated projectiles approximately the size of a 9mm with each trigger pull at 850 fps. Within 21 feet these projectiles would be devastating. Back them up with Maximum Expansion .45s made for the Governor and you've upped your game. The shotgun has just become a pistol.

 

[Wise_A]

I am underwhelmed. It lacks capacity, especially given its size. The .410 is of debatable effectiveness from the short, rifled barrel. Hybrid disc/birdshot loads like the Winchester PDX1 are of dubious effectiveness, with the discs penetrating as little as 6" in some ballistic gelatin tests (10% medium gel, single layer of denim). The discs themselves don't expand in any meaningful way.

And if you don't use .410 ammo of limited effectiveness at distances longer than "too damn close", well, you might as well have brought a .45 Colt or .45 ACP.

I am far more comforted by conventional handguns firing conventional self-defense ammunition. I value consistency and versatility over Mass x Velocity and marketing. Quality defensive ammo is quite effective on its own without gimmicks. Simple 9mm +P carry ammo has probably laid low more bad guys--and saved more lives--than a .410 handgun could ever dream of.

 

[Gulfecho]

Again, watch from 6:10 in.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AmjsiXT0YM[/ame]

 

[Duckford]

That video illustrates my point well. The disks are sideways in the block, indicating they did not crush an optimum path through the block, they slipped sideways to provide the least surface area and resistance. The disks turn sideways and cut a think crush cavity, and even then penetration was inferior to ball buckshot. I've seen another video on disks doing the same thing, can't find it now, it shows they are a backwards design, the whole disk thing never made sense since day one.

If one is to choose the .410 handgun, 000 buckshot is the best of all options, and the disks are a novelty. And the BB's? They did fail, 4-6 inches in block, considering skin, they would have not hardly gotten into a man, and almost certainly not deep enough to hit or damage anything of value. That PDX load looks worse every single time I look at it.

 

[Gulfecho]

That video illustrates my point well. The disks are sideways in the block, indicating they did not crush an optimum path through the block, they slipped sideways to provide the least surface area and resistance. The disks turn sideways and cut a think crush cavity, and even then penetration was inferior to ball buckshot. I've seen another video on disks doing the same thing, can't find it now, it shows they are a backwards design, the whole disk thing never made sense since day one.

If one is to choose the .410 handgun, 000 buckshot is the best of all options, and the disks are a novelty. And the BB's? They did fail, 4-6 inches in block, considering skin, they would have not hardly gotten into a man, and almost certainly not deep enough to hit or damage anything of value. That PDX load looks worse every single time I look at it.

I own the PDX but won't load it as the BBs are useless. But the Federal 000 buck is a different story. In the ballistics video above, all 4 copper plated pellets passed clean through a 12" block. The results are similar amongst other ballistics tests I've seen.

 

[elm_creek_smith]

My brother has a Taurus Judge 2½ inch with a 3 inch barrel for his "car gun" when traveling. He loads it with 0000 buck (4 pellets) which should be sufficient for any carjacker. It's not his normal carry gun, but he likes having it in his little truck.

 

[Gulfecho]

Before you go run out and buy one watch this:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0

I understand it's a judge but it gives you an idea of the power of a 410 out of a short barrel. Hickok went to 00 buck before it would even penetrate a piece of thin air duct tubing at 7 yards. The spread on 00 buck at 7 yards is about a foot wide meaning any distance beyond that would result in praying that one hits the target.

Would it be good for varmints? Potentially but it's nothing I would want to bet my life on.

I would buy a small 38 special before I would buy this, unless the person shooting it is a horrible shot and needs that wide spread to hit anything

Before you go out and buy watch this, devastating!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDMDd4eAQO0[/ame]

 

[Muss Muggins]

I wouldn't want to get shot with a pellet gun either, but it would be my last choice to use if someone broke in my house.

Why the assortment of cartridges? Unsure of which will actually do the job?

Oh, they'll all get it done. I like variety . . .

 

[okiegtrider]

Governors and Judges always struck me as the answer to a question nobody asked.

But, I can see from this thread some folks clearly like em. It's good to have choices.

There are a couple over in the classifieds right now.

 

[caleb4387]

It's fine as long as you use 45 colt

 

[comtedeloach]

Governors and Judges always struck me as the answer to a question nobody asked.

But, I can see from this thread some folks clearly like em. It's good to have choices.



There are a couple over in the classifieds right now.

It's always struck me that saying something is an answer to a question nobody asked is just a fancy way of saying "I have no idea what I am talking about but want to sound like I have something important to say."

BTW, there are always a couple of everything from time to time in the classified ads.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[DD357]

It's always struck me that saying something is an answer to a question nobody asked is just a fancy way of saying "I have no idea what I am talking about but want to sound like I have something important to say."

BTW, there are always a couple of everything from time to time in the classified ads.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I take it mean the poster sees no practical use or it offers less than other options available. I have no problem with someone using it.

 

[Mister X]

I don't know about "naysayers, including nearly every professional shooting instructor", that seems a bit outlandish. I have seen many whom endorse the .410/.45 revolver

Can you provide some names of reputable defensive shooting instructors who endorse the judge/governor?

 

[rwsmith]

Could you......

think the reason is the 45 ACP's have to use a moon clip because the case is shoulder less .. and the clips come either in a full 6 shot moon clip or a 2 shot partial moon clip .. so you have to load the 45's in multiples of 2 or 6 according to which clip you have .. they come with both and are pretty cheap .. least believe that is the reason(s) ..

Could you put a .45 ACP so that it is the first and the last to shoot?

 

[Muss Muggins]

Could you put a .45 ACP so that it is the first and the last to shoot?

Yes. You can easily stage any two rounds in a S&W, or any other revolver for that matter, so they're the first and last to shoot, even when connected by a two-round moon clip.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Can you provide some names of reputable defensive shooting instructors who endorse the judge/governor?

Although now retired, "Muss Muggins"

 

[cvnunez]

I watched videos, read articles, and listened to opinions for 2 years before I ended up buying the "Governor".
Data from many tests concluded that the Governor has a tighter grouping when using shot shells compared to the Judge. I use the 2 and a half inch Federal 000 buck that is made for this gun. The groupings are quite impressive. Bird shot is useless. Federal makes a 4 shot for this gun and it works great for peppering something. For SD I use 2 (Federal 000), 2 (Long Colt HP made from Hornady for this gun), and 2 ACP HP.
I paid the extra money and have the Crimson Trace grips and night sight. I have taken my wife to the range to make sure she can shoot it. She has better aim than me.

 

[Golddollar]

I took my Governor to the range to test it out. I fired 3 five-shot groups at about 7 yards, 2 single action and 1 double action, with Ultramax 45 Colt cowboy loads. The two outermost shots are from the double action group. I'll let the results speak for themselves.

 

[inspcalahan]

We ride atv's about 35 miles in to moose camp every year. Invariably, when going through the wooded areas, we flush a good number of grouse. Most shots are within 10 yards, if you get off your rig and get to them quickly enough. I found the Governor, in a hip holster, loaded with birdshot to be very handy. Makes quick work of the birds, mostly head shots, gives you wiggle room with pellets as opposed to a .22 when the birds take flight (grouse typically fly tree to tree or circle around - no long flights off like ducks), has 6 shots available if you flush a pile of them, is always accessible as opposed to a long gun in a case bungeed down in the back.....

Just me though....to each his own....