sw357nm
Member
Another USNCPC
Charlie,
I have USNCPC 748606. Came from Charie Pate. It is about 80% thinning blue.
John Hopkins
Charlie,
I have USNCPC 748606. Came from Charie Pate. It is about 80% thinning blue.
John Hopkins
USNCPC M&P
- Thread starter WHEELGUNS
- Start date
sw357nm
Member
Charlie
Charlie Pate. Sorry for the misspelling.
John
Charlie Pate. Sorry for the misspelling.
John
ordnanceguy
Member
Dave:
Thanks for your email message with the serial. I responded with the likely ship date and destination, and some further details on the marking you asked about and the USNCPC guns in general.
ordnanceguy
Member
Bruce:
Thanks for the tip. LWCmdr45 and I will have that info added to the Victory Database. We now have quite a few of the USNCPC guns in the Database.
Thanks for the tip. LWCmdr45 and I will have that info added to the Victory Database. We now have quite a few of the USNCPC guns in the Database.
ordnanceguy
Member
Thank you, John. We appreciate your assistance.
USNCPC .38 spcl
I have recently inherited an old S&W .38 from a family friend. It is in fairly good condition with the bluing only begining to wear off of the extractor. It contains the USNCPC on the grip and it has the lanyard loop, it does not however contain any British proof markings. The Serial number is 7488##. I was hoping you may be able to give me a little more history on this gun.
Thank you
I have recently inherited an old S&W .38 from a family friend. It is in fairly good condition with the bluing only begining to wear off of the extractor. It contains the USNCPC on the grip and it has the lanyard loop, it does not however contain any British proof markings. The Serial number is 7488##. I was hoping you may be able to give me a little more history on this gun.
Thank you
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
another for the list
i wandered onto this post while looking for info about a victory model i just picked up. for what its worth its serial #619862 looks like it was made in 44?
anyway. i too have a u.s.n.c.p.c. gun out in the vault so i went and got it. its serial #748863. it has no brit markings and is in a solid 90% cond. if it werent for a few light scratches from years of laying around it would be 95% there is absolutely no wear in the bluing. only bummer is when i got it the lanyard loop was missing so i picked up one at a gun show which is parked. here's the kicker....bought it at a local shop where they sell a ton of black guns covered in rails and plastic. guy knew it wasnt a victory mod but really didn't know much about it (neither did i). not being the kind of stuff they specialize in i bought it for $175
i wandered onto this post while looking for info about a victory model i just picked up. for what its worth its serial #619862 looks like it was made in 44?
anyway. i too have a u.s.n.c.p.c. gun out in the vault so i went and got it. its serial #748863. it has no brit markings and is in a solid 90% cond. if it werent for a few light scratches from years of laying around it would be 95% there is absolutely no wear in the bluing. only bummer is when i got it the lanyard loop was missing so i picked up one at a gun show which is parked. here's the kicker....bought it at a local shop where they sell a ton of black guns covered in rails and plastic. guy knew it wasnt a victory mod but really didn't know much about it (neither did i). not being the kind of stuff they specialize in i bought it for $175
i wandered onto this post while looking for info about a victory model i just picked up. for what its worth its serial #619862 looks like it was made in 44?
anyway. i too have a u.s.n.c.p.c. gun out in the vault so i went and got it. its serial #748863. it has no brit markings and is in a solid 90% cond. if it werent for a few light scratches from years of laying around it would be 95% there is absolutely no wear in the bluing. only bummer is when i got it the lanyard loop was missing so i picked up one at a gun show which is parked. here's the kicker....bought it at a local shop where they sell a ton of black guns covered in rails and plastic. guy knew it wasnt a victory mod but really didn't know much about it (neither did i). not being the kind of stuff they specialize in i bought it for $175
THIEF!! Just kiddin' ya'
and Welcome to the forum!
Plenty of those still out there with the original case hardened finish, so keep looking. Sounds like a gun that deserves the absolutely correct part.
Texas Star
US Veteran
Originally Posted by AKAOV1MAN
The Austrian shipped guns were for the Austrian police after the war was over. We shipped them because the police were carrying mostly 32 and even some 25 caliber semis that were considered not useful for police service. So we sent them Smiths, the police were not very grateful, they dumped the quality wheelguns ASAP and took up with any old semi auto they could find-they just were not used to revolvers. The person who initially decided that they needed new guns was alleged to have been General Patton, and given his gun interest just might have been true. The same situation happened with the German police after the war was over, they just could not abide revolvers and found any old semi auto to take the place of S&W revolvers.
I don't know about Aussie Police but I have a Aussie military marked Victoty and holster, so they were sent some.
popgun
Popgun-
Read more carefully or get some geography lessons!
Certainly, Australian military and, also over the years, police, have used many S&W .38 revolvers.
But the guns referred to were for AUSTRIA, a country next to Germany, and halfway around the world from AUSTRALIA and speaking a different language.
You are not the only one to make this error. I tried a few years ago to send a couple of books to a friend in Austria, and the postal clerk told me that there were no post offices in AUSTRALIA. This idiot (I'd better not describe her further) had never heard of Austria, and was badly informed about Australia. Both are highly developed nations and both have excellent postal services! Austria also has great concert halls and is reknowned for its strudel and Viennese coffee. There! But she had not heard of a city called Vienna, either, just the little sausages. She had heard of Arnold Schwarzenegger, but had no idea that he was from Austria.
I finally got her to check some references and got my books mailed. My friend got them about a week later.
I swear that this is a true story. It's just one reason why I avoid the USPS when I can. And most other US Govt. agencies...
BTW, your AUSTRALIAN S&W is probably chambered for the .38 S&W regular ctg., not .38 Special. Those were often referred to as the .38-200 model. They most often had five-inch barrels, but those made before April, 1942 were also furnished with four and six-inch barrels.
Now, after the war, both US and British authorities furnished extra revolvers to German and Austrian cops. Both the .38 Special Victory Model and the .38-200 were provided, depending on which army occupied that particular zone of those nations. The Bavarian Rural Police were one agency that received some, as I recall.
BTW, I think they were given these guns after the dust settled, having been disarmed following the German surrender. I don't think their having previously often carried 7.65mm autos was a factor, and certainly doubt that Gen. Patton had anything to do with the issue. If someone can prove that, it would be an interesting historical footnote. (One post here suggested that.)
The Austrian shipped guns were for the Austrian police after the war was over. We shipped them because the police were carrying mostly 32 and even some 25 caliber semis that were considered not useful for police service. So we sent them Smiths, the police were not very grateful, they dumped the quality wheelguns ASAP and took up with any old semi auto they could find-they just were not used to revolvers. The person who initially decided that they needed new guns was alleged to have been General Patton, and given his gun interest just might have been true. The same situation happened with the German police after the war was over, they just could not abide revolvers and found any old semi auto to take the place of S&W revolvers.
I don't know about Aussie Police but I have a Aussie military marked Victoty and holster, so they were sent some.
popgun
Popgun-
Read more carefully or get some geography lessons!
Certainly, Australian military and, also over the years, police, have used many S&W .38 revolvers.
But the guns referred to were for AUSTRIA, a country next to Germany, and halfway around the world from AUSTRALIA and speaking a different language.
You are not the only one to make this error. I tried a few years ago to send a couple of books to a friend in Austria, and the postal clerk told me that there were no post offices in AUSTRALIA. This idiot (I'd better not describe her further) had never heard of Austria, and was badly informed about Australia. Both are highly developed nations and both have excellent postal services! Austria also has great concert halls and is reknowned for its strudel and Viennese coffee. There! But she had not heard of a city called Vienna, either, just the little sausages. She had heard of Arnold Schwarzenegger, but had no idea that he was from Austria.
I finally got her to check some references and got my books mailed. My friend got them about a week later.
I swear that this is a true story. It's just one reason why I avoid the USPS when I can. And most other US Govt. agencies...
BTW, your AUSTRALIAN S&W is probably chambered for the .38 S&W regular ctg., not .38 Special. Those were often referred to as the .38-200 model. They most often had five-inch barrels, but those made before April, 1942 were also furnished with four and six-inch barrels.
Now, after the war, both US and British authorities furnished extra revolvers to German and Austrian cops. Both the .38 Special Victory Model and the .38-200 were provided, depending on which army occupied that particular zone of those nations. The Bavarian Rural Police were one agency that received some, as I recall.
BTW, I think they were given these guns after the dust settled, having been disarmed following the German surrender. I don't think their having previously often carried 7.65mm autos was a factor, and certainly doubt that Gen. Patton had anything to do with the issue. If someone can prove that, it would be an interesting historical footnote. (One post here suggested that.)
Last edited:
ordnanceguy
Member
Geoff:
First, welcome to the Forum. You will like it here.
Second, thanks for posting the number of your USNCPC example. Sounds like a very nice piece. It likely shipped in the March, 1941 time frame. Does it have the checkered walnut service stocks with the S&W medallions?
On your V619862 can you tell me if it is a 4 inch, .38 Special? Any markings on the left top strap or butt besides the serial? Your guess on the ship date is pretty good. I would estimate shipping in the June-July, 1944 time frame.
HTH.
First, welcome to the Forum. You will like it here.
Second, thanks for posting the number of your USNCPC example. Sounds like a very nice piece. It likely shipped in the March, 1941 time frame. Does it have the checkered walnut service stocks with the S&W medallions?
On your V619862 can you tell me if it is a 4 inch, .38 Special? Any markings on the left top strap or butt besides the serial? Your guess on the ship date is pretty good. I would estimate shipping in the June-July, 1944 time frame.
HTH.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the date on the usncpc gun. It has uncheckered grips and one (right side I think) is numbered to the frame on the under side. I'm going to keep looking for a correct lanyard loop for this gun as it does not match the blued finish. I wanted to put a loop on it though and found a parked one at a gun show for $20.
The victory mod has a "p" on the upper left side of the frame near the corner of the cylinder opening. It is a 4" gun. it does not have an "s" in the serial number. I don't have it in front of me but I think those are the only marks other than serial numbers and frame/crane numbers.
Thanks for the date on the usncpc gun. It has uncheckered grips and one (right side I think) is numbered to the frame on the under side. I'm going to keep looking for a correct lanyard loop for this gun as it does not match the blued finish. I wanted to put a loop on it though and found a parked one at a gun show for $20.
The victory mod has a "p" on the upper left side of the frame near the corner of the cylinder opening. It is a 4" gun. it does not have an "s" in the serial number. I don't have it in front of me but I think those are the only marks other than serial numbers and frame/crane numbers.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Lobo. I do feel like a bit of a thief but better me than someone else right! Honestly though, I will take care of it and love it where as someone else might have bought it for a cheap glove box gun so I look at it like I saved the poor ole girl. We found each other!
I love this gunshop though. It's messy and cluttered and you never know what you'll find if you poke around. I bought a nice war finish webly in 38/200 a few years back for $80 at this shop. It was laying on the desk in the office with a broken latch spring and no one knew where to get parts for it. Numrich had one for $13, and we lived happily ever after.
I love this gunshop though. It's messy and cluttered and you never know what you'll find if you poke around. I bought a nice war finish webly in 38/200 a few years back for $80 at this shop. It was laying on the desk in the office with a broken latch spring and no one knew where to get parts for it. Numrich had one for $13, and we lived happily ever after.
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2011
- Messages
- 4
- Reaction score
- 0
Ordnanceguy, i miss spoke. The usncpc gun has smooth walnut grips but they are NOT numbered on the inside. The victory mod is the one with numbered grips. Are these incorrect grips for the usn gun?
Amen buddy!!
ordnanceguy
Member
Hi Geoff:
Yes, the proper stocks for the USNCPC guns are the checkered walnut service stocks with small S&W medallions. If original to the gun the inside of the right stock will bear the serial number of the gun.
another question about USNCPC
Hello everyone... New guy here...
I have one of the pistols described here... #7525xx.
There are no British proof markings or such, BUT the left side of frame is engraved, M.I. - 149.
Any idea what this indicates?
Thanks for a great forum! ~Larry~
Hello everyone... New guy here...
I have one of the pistols described here... #7525xx.
There are no British proof markings or such, BUT the left side of frame is engraved, M.I. - 149.
Any idea what this indicates?
Thanks for a great forum! ~Larry~
ordnanceguy
Member
O:
Welcome to the Forum.
Yes, I have a good idea what that marking is. Please PM me with the complete serial number and I will get back to you with my thoughts on the marking.
Hi to all, I have a U.S.N.C.P.C. revolver # 759098 complete in every detail as described on the forum & would like Charlie to add it to the pre victory & victory model database.As I live in Australia it is a mystery as to how it got here, cheers.
DWalt
Member
Now that we all know what USNCPC means, just what was USNCPC? This is about all I could find about it:
"Since early 1940 the U S Navy, as it expanded, was concerned with possible sabotage of naval and other key-military industrial plants. The current issue 1911A1 45acp pistol would be needed for front-line fighting troops. It was decided to create a Navy civilian police corps to provide security for these installations."
There is still a LE agency existing called the "Department of the Navy Police (civilian police)." I don't know if it is the same as the USNCPC.
"Since early 1940 the U S Navy, as it expanded, was concerned with possible sabotage of naval and other key-military industrial plants. The current issue 1911A1 45acp pistol would be needed for front-line fighting troops. It was decided to create a Navy civilian police corps to provide security for these installations."
There is still a LE agency existing called the "Department of the Navy Police (civilian police)." I don't know if it is the same as the USNCPC.
Last edited:
Springfan
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Original post 3 1/2 years ago. Change to 1944.
ordnanceguy
Member
Hello Jeff:
Thanks very much for providing us with the details on your USNCPC revolver. Does it have any post-war markings such as the sometimes seen British proofs?
N_Frame.SquareButt
Member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2009
- Messages
- 71
- Reaction score
- 157
My dad just gave me one of these as a Christmas gift. #7524xx. It has M.I.-121 stamped on the left side. Was told this is for the Mares Island Naval Station. Any idea if this is correct?
Sounds like a great gift! Could you post a picture of it?
N_Frame.SquareButt
Member
- Joined
- Dec 12, 2009
- Messages
- 71
- Reaction score
- 157
ordnanceguy
Member
What a wonderful gift of history.
The facility in question was known in WW2 as the Mare Island Navy Yard. Located in San Francisco Bay at Vallejo it was once one of the most important West coast naval facilities. It's name changed somewhat over the years and the Yard has been closed for quite a while.
I would like to add your revolver to the Victory Model Database. Would you please send me a PM with the complete serial number?
- Joined
- May 24, 2017
- Messages
- 1
- Reaction score
- 0
U.S.N.C.P.C
I have the chance to buy one of these pistols with the serial number of 7592xx. What is a fair value to these guns? it has all the paperwork to document it.
I have the chance to buy one of these pistols with the serial number of 7592xx. What is a fair value to these guns? it has all the paperwork to document it.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It's hard to say since they don't come up for sale very often. I know of one, lettered and what looks to be decent shape, that has been on offer for months at $1495 without any bites. There were only 3000 made, and the SCSW (4th) claims double to triple standard values, so that wouldn't be out of the ballpark.
But as with all such "book values", a gun is worth that amount only if someone is actually willing to pay.
kwill1911
Member
Exactly what paperwork do you have? If possible, post clear pictures of the revolver and the papers.
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
