Victory data base

[Cyrano]

Seen at the El Paso gun show this wekend: 5 inch barrel, 38 S&W caliber, top strap marked US Property, GHD. SN on butt: V 477081. Small round marking of the Austrian police on left side, to rear of hammer. Didn't see any other markings. Evidently this was one of the pistols the British furnished Austria when the Austrian police force was rearmed after WW II. Austria was occupied by the four powers, the others furnished:

US: 45s.
France: svw45 and 46 P 38s. The Austrians modified the safety and stamped the BH and the double eagle.
Russia: Lugers!!! 9mm P wasn't a caliber used in Russian weapons, and the pistols were obsolescent at that time.

 

[rebelchopper]

My Victory model for the registry

Good evening all. I was recently given a S&W Victory model by my mother. I'm still researching where the gun came from in my family. In the meantime, I wanted to submit it to the registry. The Serial # is V219104, and has 'US NAVY' on the top left. All serial #'s match. I would like any info that you can provide me on my new piece of history. Please let me know if you need other info/markings from the gun. Thanks!

 

[Greg10]

Newly obtained Victory

I just took possession of this revolver from my dad:
1. Serial # V252451 on bottom of grip, cylinder & barrel
2. 5 Screw
3. 2 1/2" Barrel
Under the barrel I found stamped:

.38 "767"
V252451
Crown BNP 3 1/2 Tons

4. The Crown and BNP is also stamped just forward of the trigger guard and on the cylinder where "England" is also stamped
5. You'll see in the picture that it looks like there was a lanyard hole on the bottom of the grip that has been filled

I'd appreciate any info you may provide.

 

[DWalt]

Yours is a .38/200 M&P made for the British Commonwealth, probably shipped in March or April 1943. Unfortunately, the barrel has been shortened, and the grips are not original and unmatched. You do not say if .38 Special ammunition will fit, but if so, the chambers have been reamed out. The markings indicate release and proof testing by the British for commercial sale. A huge number of the British Victories met a similar fate to make them more marketable in the US after WWII, up through the 1960s. At that time, they sold very cheaply, usually $25-$35.

Other than as a shooter, the modifications and poor condition of the finish (there appears to have been an attempt to blue it) have destroyed any collector value.

Didn't you make an earlier posting about this same gun?

 

[the locksmith]

Victory Data Base

Hi,
I have an entry for the data base that I would like info on.The revolver has a 5" barrel, 5 screws, the cylinder, under the bbl, and butt serial #s all match. The right side of the bbl is marked .38 s&w ctg, I have fired that cartridge in it and there is nothing to indicate it was ever rebored. The cylinder is marked with both a P and a V + the serial # V 647613, the lanyard ring is complete. The backstrap, is stamped with
H, E, a sideways J, and an M. The top of the bbl is marked Springfield Mass USA, and Patented Feb 6, 06 Sept 14, 09 and Dec 29, 14. Anything you can tell me will be appreciated.
Larry

 

[Greg10]

Thanks, and yes I did. At the time I didn't know this was a Victory Model and just found that was a thread dedicated to them. I also didn't realize that there were additional markings on the bottom of the barrel..specifically the: .38 "767" and was trying to see if anyone knew what that pertained to, the "767".

Are you sure the barrel has been shortened? I've read that these guns came in several different barrel lengths. Thanks again.

 

[gordonrick]

Greg,
There would be a locking lug under the barrel if it were a factory snubbie, although there were a very few 2" Victories, this is not one of them. It was originally 5" in all likelihood. Since just before the turn of the century, S&W's will all have the extractor rod locking lug.

You see this a lot in pawnshop display cases. I'll bet you will find that a .38 special cartridge will fit. If you look in the cylinder you may be able to see a "fairy ring" where the original bore was lengthened to take the longer cartridge.

 

[gordonrick]

BUT - it is still something you can shoot (don't use the +P ammo) and remember your dad by.

My first Victory had a DIY barrel replacement (a few degrees out of alignment), bored-out cylinders and incorrect magna grips. I had a lot of fun with that gun.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Hi,
I have an entry for the data base that I would like info on.... the serial # V 647613. The back strap, is stamped with H, E, a sideways J, and an M. ... Anything you can tell me will be appreciated. Larry

Hello Larry:

Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for supplying the complete serial and good photos. I find partial serials with XXXs to be pretty much useless.

From the Victory Model Database, maintained by LWCmdr45 and yours truly, I can tell you that your Victory was likely shipped from the factory in the August, 1944 time frame. It was intended as a Lend Lease gun. It originally had a phosphate finish similar to Parkerizing, and had smooth walnut stocks.

The markings on the back strap were applied after it left the factory and, indeed, after the end of WW2. The markings actually read "HE-M". That is a property marking for a West German police agency which was supplied with Victory revolvers by Allied Forces. The markings are believed to be those of the German state of Hesse. Many Victory Models with similar back strap markings are found in the Database.

I trust that this information will be helpful to you.

 

[DWalt]

"Thanks, and yes I did. At the time I didn't know this was a Victory Model and just found that was a thread dedicated to them. I also didn't realize that there were additional markings on the bottom of the barrel..specifically the: .38 "767" and was trying to see if anyone knew what that pertained to, the "767"."

Those markings were placed there before they were released by the British government. .38 .767" simply means .38 caliber with a case length of .767" (i.e., .38 S&W, NOT .38 S&W Special). You might wish to see if the chambers will accept .38 S&W Special cartridges completely. If so, the chambers have been reamed.

 

[DWalt]

" Originally Posted by the locksmith View Post
Hi,
I have an entry for the data base that I would like info on.... the serial # V 647613. The back strap, is stamped with H, E, a sideways J, and an M. ... Anything you can tell me will be appreciated. Larry"

I am sure you are aware the nickel finish and grips are not original. Many of these were put into civil police service in Germany and Austria during the post-WWII occupation period.

 

[the locksmith]

Hello Larry:

Welcome to the Forum. Thanks for supplying the complete serial and good photos. I find partial serials with XXXs to be pretty much useless.

From the Victory Model Database, maintained by LWCmdr45 and yours truly, I can tell you that your Victory was likely shipped from the factory in the August, 1944 time frame. It was intended as a Lend Lease gun. It originally had a phosphate finish similar to Parkerizing, and had smooth walnut stocks.

The markings on the back strap were applied after it left the factory and, indeed, after the end of WW2. The markings actually read "HE-M". That is a property marking for a West German police agency which was supplied with Victory revolvers by Allied Forces. The markings are believed to be those of the German state of Hesse. Many Victory Models with similar back strap markings are found in the Database.

I trust that this information will be helpful to you.

Ordnanceguy,
Thank you so much for that information, I was confused with what I took for the sideways J and having the details of its' trail during the war will definitely add to my enjoyment of this fine weapon.
Larry

 

[Emathiasma1]

. Also looking for info on my victory I am assuming it has been refinished but se# v245xxx looking for year is it a civilian model where can I get original grips and what is it worth.thanks ed

 

[DWalt]

Yours shipped about March 1943. How is it marked, i.e., does it have anything stamped on the top strap (United States Property or U. S. Navy)? What is the caliber stamping on the barrel? If not stamped on the topstrap it is probably one made for stateside civilian service, for police or defense plant guards. Grips are very interesting, even though not original. Could be Tuskoid. I'll leave that to others who know more about grips than I do.

 

[Emathiasma1]

No markings just on the frame where the cylinder opens there is an s5 and it is just a strait 38

 

[DWalt]

It should have at least a caliber marking (38 S&W Special CTG) on the barrel, unless it has been polished off. The lack of any other markings suggests it's one of the wartime DSC contract revolvers made for domestic use. The gun itself has no collector value due to its poor condition, but might be worth a couple of hundred as a shooter. However, the grips, if they are Tuskoid, could have substantial value. You may want to remove them and take some good detailed close-up pictures of both inner and outer surfaces for posting. Tuskoid grips are an arcane area of S&W collectibles, and the only ones I have seen have been the later Magna style. Those on yours are of the grip panel style used by S&W during the 1920s, and I have no idea if Tuskoids even existed then.

 

[the locksmith]

Victory

Ordnanceguy,
Thank you so much for that information, I was confused with what I took for the sideways J and having the details of its' trail during the war will definitely add to my enjoyment of this fine weapon.
Larry

I don't know if an answer to this is possible without handling it, but is there any way to put a ballpark value on this weapon?
Thanks,
Larry

 

[Emathiasma1]

as for the grips they say franzite mpsq

 

[DWalt]

Yours was originally chambered in .38 S&W caliber, NOT .38 S&W Special. Therefore, it was originally made for the British Commonwealth military, not for the U. S. military or for U. S. civilian service. It should also have a United States Property stamping on the top strap. It has obviously been nickel plated, which was not done at the factory. It is also highly probable that the chambers have been reamed out to accept .38 S&W Special cartridges, and the barrel may have been shortened, as most of the original British contract barrels were 5". Yours looks to be shorter. In the years following WWII, a very large number of the British revolvers were so modified and sold very cheaply on the U.S. civilian market by mail order until the late 1960s. All defects taken together, the value of yours is minimal, except for possibly the grips, only if they can be identified as Tuskoid.

 

[Emathiasma1]

Thank you very much ill take pics of the grips next you were a big help.