Victory data base

[Absalom]

New to forum, issued a 38 spl revolver in 1966 at Malstrom AFB MT.
.........
The distribution of the victory models with serial numbers very close to each other going to different places, army, navy, allies, and used for security at many different facilities here in US.
Example:

Serial # 5004441 going to Army marked property of US
5004330 going to Navy marked Navy
5005998 going to factory in US for security purposes

Was distribution random with no real sequence followed?
......

Welcome to the forum.

Your 1960s Air Force issue could have been a Model 15 (recognizable by adjustable sights), which was an official issue AF revolver of the time, but according to many eye-witnesses, including members here, the Victory was still in service and issued at that time also.

As for Victory distribution, it wasn’t “random”, but shipment occurred in batches, sometimes small ones of 10 or 25, sometimes 500 guns. They filled orders as assigned by the War Productions Board. But since they produced many thousands per month, serials “close to each other” is really a relative term.

 

[cattleman77]

S&W Victory Question

I recently acquired Victory V676425. It has a 5" barrel chambered for .38SW. It has US Property on the top strap With the GHD inspector initials. It has no import markings, but does have stamped on the left side: Pol. Br. with L.u.S. underneath. Does anyone know what these initials stand for? I will attempt to attach a pic.

Thanks, Cattleman77

 

[Absalom]

I recently acquired Victory V676425. It has a 5" barrel chambered for .38SW. It has US Property on the top strap With the GHD inspector initials. It has no import markings, but does have stamped on the left side: Pol. Br. with L.u.S. underneath. Does anyone know what these initials stand for?...

Your gun was originally made for Lend-lease shipment to Britain in the summer of 1944.

After the war, it was issued by occupation authorities to the local German police in Bremen. Pol. Br. stands for Polizei Bremen. L.u.S. is most likely Land- und Stadtpolizei (state and city police), as Bremen was a city state.

After being surplused out or handed back by the Germans, some of these ended up for sale at rod and gun clubs at US bases. Because Bremen was a US enclave in the British zone, that may be how this gun ended up back in the US without any further markings.

 

[DWalt]

There was an article on the German and Austrian occupation police Victories in the American Rifleman a couple of years ago, it's probably still available on the NRA website. On my list is V6767xx (.38 Special) which shipped on 9/9/44.

 

[cattleman77]

Thanks Absalom & DWalt. Your replies are very helpful!

Cattleman77

 

[wildcat83]

Last year I bought a S&W Victory model marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" on right side of barrel, "U.S. Property G.H.D." on left side of top strap. S/N is V391812, and is matching on grip frame, barrel, cylinder, and extractor star; Number on inside of right grip is about 100,000 higher number; 4" barrel; finish appears to be parkerized but might be the gray fiinish--hard to tell. Question--are the grips attached likely what the original grips would have been? Also, thought I had some kind of issue, as a .38 Special round would only go into cylinder about 3/4" of the way; closer inspection I found snap rings about 3/8" wide snapped into each chamber. I was able to push these out using a .30 carbine shell and grabbed them with needle nose pliers (see photo)--what would these have been used for?

Thanks for any info on this piece of history.

 

[wildcat83]

Adding photos

 

[DWalt]

The grips are far newer than the gun, they are from sometime after 1969. V391812 would have shipped around September 1943. I have no idea what those rings are for, but without the rings, it is possible that your cylinder is for the .38 S&W caliber if a .38 Special cartridge cannot be inserted. But I don't know how that would be if the SNs match.

 

[wildcat83]

You ask if it is possible the cylinder is actually for a .38 S&W--this is exactly what I wondered until I realized the SN on it matched the others on the gun; that's when I started looking more closely at the interior of the chambers and noticed the rings. .38 Special rounds load nicely now that the rings have been removed. The grips have been on there a long time as there are faint lines on the frame matching the curve of the top of the grips; regardless, I'll look for original grips so the gun is correct. I have a Model 10-5, which is not identical to the Victory but mighty close--the grips on the Victory I'm relatively certain are from a Model 10.

Thank you for the info--

 

[Absalom]

... I have no idea what those rings are for, but without the rings, it is possible that your cylinder is for the .38 S&W caliber if a .38 Special cartridge cannot be inserted. But I don't know how that would be if the SNs match.

That is indeed odd. Could someone have tried to make the gun usable for some .38-diametered rimless shorter pistol cartridge by creating an artificial shoulder in the chambers? Just fishing here

 

[wildcat83]

BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Welcome to the forums from the Wiregrass! It appears to be the original phosphate finish flavor that S&W was producing at that time.

 

[Absalom]

BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?

The term used throughout the war is “sandblast Black Magic”. Invoices I’ve seen just say “sandblast”. Newly applied it looks a lot like parkerizing, but since it is not a phosphate finish, with use it wears and develops a grey, sometimes greenish sheen distinct from actual parkerizing, like on your gun.

These finishes generally don’t photograph well. The attached photo shows a Victory next to a Colt Commando with true “Parkerizing” (Parco-Lubrite from the Parker Rust-Proof Co.). The difference is noticeable despite less than perfect lighting.

 

[Muley Gil]

Last year I bought a S&W Victory model marked ".38 S&W Special CTG" on right side of barrel, "U.S. Property G.H.D." on left side of top strap. S/N is V391812, and is matching on grip frame, barrel, cylinder, and extractor star; Number on inside of right grip is about 100,000 higher number; 4" barrel; finish appears to be parkerized but might be the gray fiinish--hard to tell. Question--are the grips attached likely what the original grips would have been? Also, thought I had some kind of issue, as a .38 Special round would only go into cylinder about 3/4" of the way; closer inspection I found snap rings about 3/8" wide snapped into each chamber. I was able to push these out using a .30 carbine shell and grabbed them with needle nose pliers (see photo)--what would these have been used for?

Thanks for any info on this piece of history.

9mm perhaps?

 

[DWalt]

9mm may fit into a .38 S&W chamber, but generally they will not go in to a .38 Special chamber far enough to close the cylinder.

 

[KEN L]

BTW--what would you call the finish on this gun--is it parkerized?

It is Smith's version of parkerizing, they called a "military midnight black finish".

 

[Absalom]

It is Smith's version of parkerizing, they called a "military midnight black finish".

That’s what we used to think. You should read Roy’s “Voices from the Past” in the journal, the summer 2017 edition for the Williams notes and the summer 2018 edition for the Ordnance report. That is what is documented, and that is what we know. And if you read the “collector tip” on p. 166 of the SCSW, 4th ed., you’ll notice the change in terminology there, too.

 

[s3dcor]

Would like info on the following Victory revolver.

Its in .38/200 with a 5" barrel, parkerized finish, marked "US Property GHD" on the top strap, the serial number is V755218. Has BP marks on cylinder and proof marks on left rear of barrel.

All the finish is gone but it is solid. Is it worth $299?

 

[DWalt]

Would like info on the following Victory revolver.

Its in .38/200 with a 5" barrel, parkerized finish, marked "US Property GHD" on the top strap, the serial number is V755218. Has BP marks on cylinder and proof marks on left rear of barrel.

All the finish is gone but it is solid. Is it worth $299?

Assuming it is functional, yes. It is a Lend-Lease British Service Revolver (BSR). The serial number suggests that it was probably shipped in early 1945. It would have been one of the very last BSRs made.

 

[s3dcor]

Thanks Dwalt, you are the man.