Victory data base

[ladyT]

On the barrel right side there is 38 smith&wesson CTG

left side of barrel there is smith & wesson a crown with the letters BNP underneath i, then a dot then 38 then another dot followed by 767' and underneath that is 31/2 Tons, the s/n is on the cylinder face and the metal plate on the butt of the gun. Also on the but of the gun is the letter P , the ordnance insignia (circle with flame on top). There is also what I believe to be a unit designation just above the back part of the trigger guard on the left side of the gun. Best way to describe it is to draw a X on a piece of paper and in the open spaces made by the X place this info in left side open dpace "H", right side open space "B" and in the bottom open space place the number 2.
Also top strap left side says United States Property.
s/n V124...

 

[ordnanceguy]

I have 3 "Victories" for your data base - well sort of Victorys anyway. Early one is 6" barrel, blued, 38 S&W, lettered, shipped to the British Purchasing Commission in NY #723566 (no V). Number two is a Navy lettered 38 Special, traditional parkerized, 4" etc. #V184422. The last is another with no V but looks like the standard Lend/Lease 38 S&W with a 5" barrel. However it looks unissued, grips match, and is marked US Propery - serial 995163. I am guessing late production never "lent/Leased".

Brigham33:

Thanks for posting your data for inclusion in the Victory Model Database. A few questions, please.

On your 723566 can you give me the exact shipping date as stated on your factory letter? On V184422 you mentioned "Navy lettered". By that I am guessing that you have a factory letter showing shipment to the Navy. Can you tell us the exact shipping date and Navy location this one shipped to? Finally on your 995163 are the left top strap markings "US Property" or "United States Property"?

Again, you have our appreciation for supplying this new information to the Database.

 

[Mk VII]

They are commercial British proof marks consistent with the .38 S&W cartridge and were applied in 1957.

On the barrel right side there is 38 smith&wesson CTG

left side of barrel there is smith & wesson a crown with the letters BNP underneath i, then a dot then 38 then another dot followed by 767' and underneath that is 31/2 Tons, the s/n is on the cylinder face and the metal plate on the butt of the gun. Also on the but of the gun is the letter P , the ordnance insignia (circle with flame on top). There is also what I believe to be a unit designation just above the back part of the trigger guard on the left side of the gun. Best way to describe it is to draw a X on a piece of paper and in the open spaces made by the X place this info in left side open dpace "H", right side open space "B" and in the bottom open space place the number 2.
Also top strap left side says United States Property.
s/n V124...

 

[brigham33]

Brigham33:

Thanks for posting your data for inclusion in the Victory Model Database. A few questions, please.

On your 723566 can you give me the exact shipping date as stated on your factory letter? On V184422 you mentioned "Navy lettered". By that I am guessing that you have a factory letter showing shipment to the Navy. Can you tell us the exact shipping date and Navy location this one shipped to? Finally on your 995163 are the left top strap markings "US Property" or "United States Property"?

Again, you have our appreciation for supplying this new information to the Database.

Happy to help. 723566 was shipped on April 4th, 1941. V184422 was Shipped December 17, 1942 to the USN, Oakland CA. Finally 995163, has "United States Property" on the top strap in much finer markings that usual (yes, it has the quotes as well). It also has what looks to be a box'd WB inspection mark and an small ordinance bomb mark & P on the butt opposite the serial #. I've requested a letter on it.... From my very limited experience, it seemed unusual to me. Rick

 

[ladyT]

They are commercial British proof marks consistent with the .38 S&W cartridge and were applied in 1957.

So my Victory was still overseas in the mid to late 50's. Wonder how it found its way back to the states. Also has anyone found unit designations marked on their weapons.

 

[ordnanceguy]

Brigham33/Rick:

Thanks for providing the additional information for the Database. You have some nice guns there.

 

[cattleman77]

I have 2 Victory's. The first is V75136, 4in barrel, nothing on the top strap, 38 Special and all matching including the grips. No import marks

#2 is V601144. I have not seen one like this and was wondering if someone might have some info they would share. This is a 38SW with all matching including the grips. It has the "flaming bomb", US Property & GHD on the left strap. What I have never seen before is that there are no import marks on this revolver anywhere. I have not seen a US Property marked 38SW without import marks. Is anyone familiar with this? Thanks, Cattleman77

 

[brigham33]

I have 2 Victory's. The first is V75136, 4in barrel, nothing on the top strap, 38 Special and all matching including the grips. No import marks

#2 is V601144. I have not seen one like this and was wondering if someone might have some info they would share. This is a 38SW with all matching including the grips. It has the "flaming bomb", US Property & GHD on the left strap. What I have never seen before is that there are no import marks on this revolver anywhere. I have not seen a US Property marked 38SW without import marks. Is anyone familiar with this? Thanks, Cattleman77

Cattleman77, your victory sounds similar to one I listed a couple of posts up from your entry. I have requested a letter & if I learn anything specific to these I'll let you know... Brigham33 Rick

 

[Goony]

I have 2 Victory's. The first is V75136, 4in barrel, nothing on the top strap, 38 Special and all matching including the grips. No import marks

First off, welcome to the forum. As you're almost certainly aware, that's a pretty early Victory, probably shipped in the summer of 1942. Its lack of martial marks makes it an excellent candidate for a factory letter, which I'd urge you to get.

#2 is V601144. I have not seen one like this and was wondering if someone might have some info they would share. This is a 38SW with all matching including the grips. It has the "flaming bomb", US Property & GHD on the left strap. What I have never seen before is that there are no import marks on this revolver anywhere. I have not seen a US Property marked 38SW without import marks. Is anyone familiar with this? Thanks, Cattleman77

This gun most likely dates to mid-1944. A lot of these late gov't .38/200's evidently never left the country, at least insofar as going to our British Commonwealth allies, albeit some later turned up being furnished to various postwar German polizei. The fate of many was that they were simply disposed of as surplus following the cessation of hostilities.

Two very interesting guns, a nice way to make your splash here.

 

[cattleman77]

Thanks Goony!!

Thanks a lot for the info Goony. I am pretty sure the 1st one went to the USMC, but I had never seen a 38SW without import marks. Your description makes sense being a late S/N and possibly not actually issued to the Allies. Both have found permanent homes now. Thanks, Cattleman77

 

[cattleman77]

Thanks Brigham33

Cattleman77, your victory sounds similar to one I listed a couple of posts up from your entry. I have requested a letter & if I learn anything specific to these I'll let you know... Brigham33 Rick

I would appreciate it if you would share any info you get. Thanks, Cattleman77

 

[Goony]

I am pretty sure the 1st one went to the USMC

Do you mean the Marine Corps or the Maritime Commission? And what's the basis for your thinking so?

 

[mwr1]

Victory for Database

I recently purchased serial number V673142 5 inch barrel in .38 S&W. It is still in the orginal .38 S&W not reamed to .38 Special. Finish is the wartime "Black Magic" type. No British proofs, only a "P" stamped on the left side at he upper right of the cylinder window. "P" is also stamped under the barrel on the ejector rod flat after the serial number. Only other markings is the numeral "19" stamped on the front of the gripframe under the strain screw. Stocks are not orginal, but Diamond S&W magnas. The lanyard ring was missing but I had one around and it slipped in with no problem, the retaining pin was still in the frame under the stocks. Gun is in great shape with only a little holster wear. My question is I thought all the .38 S&W chambered guns went to the British Empire. Thanks

 

[ordnanceguy]

I have 2 Victory's. The first is V75136, 4in barrel, nothing on the top strap, 38 Special and all matching including the grips. No import marks.

Cattleman77:

Does your V75136 have a flaming bomb mark on the butt?

 

[ordnanceguy]

I recently purchased serial number V673142 5 inch barrel in .38 S&W. .....My question is I thought all the .38 S&W chambered guns went to the British Empire. Thanks

MWR1:

Thanks for posting your Data. Are there any left top strap markings on your revolver?

While the great bulk of the .38 S&W/.38-200 guns went to the British and its Commonwealth members not all did so. The US retained some of them for years.

 

[cattleman77]

Cattleman77:

Does your V75136 have a flaming bomb mark on the butt?

Yes it does, thanks. I have several pics I can share if there is an email address I can send them to. If I can post them here I will if I can figure out how to do it.
Cattleman77

 

[cattleman77]

Do you mean the Marine Corps or the Maritime Commission? And what's the basis for your thinking so?

I was thinking Maritime Commission since it does not have US Property on the left strap. Were Victories issued to the military without the US Property stamp? Thanks

 

[Goony]

I was thinking Maritime Commission since it does not have US Property on the left strap. Were Victories issued to the military without the US Property stamp? Thanks

Any martial Victory ought to have the a U.S. Navy or Army marking on the topstrap. But it's always better to never say "never" when it comes to S&W production and its distribution. I wouldn't be shocked if a stray unmarked one found its way into the pipeline for military issue.

Your early Victory may well be a U.S. Maritime Commission gun. It could also easily be one of those shipped under the aegis of the Defense Supplies Corporation, some of which went to very interesting destinations. Again, I'd strongly urge you to invest in lettering it.

 

[kwill1911]

Any martial Victory ought to have the a U.S. Navy or Army marking on the topstrap.

I'm no expert but I believe this statement to be a little too broad, isn't it? For example, the Victory Models shipped to the OSS have no markings on the top strap, I think, and I've never seen one marked US Army. Hopefully ordnanceguy will come along and correct me.

Regards,
Kevin Williams

 

[Goony]

Kevin, that raises the question of whether an OSS gun is a true martial - gov't property, yes, but perhaps not necessarily military issue, and as you point out, likely unmarked given its potential covert purpose.

As to the "Army" marking, I'm referring to the later, standard "U.S. PROPERTY G.H.D." marking as required by the Army Supply Program, even though it's believed those guns still went almost entirely to the Navy, too.