Victory data base

[Danos308]

Thanks DWALT. Yes it is definitely a .38 special. All G.I. markings are as they should be. Others are German proof marks, as is the Geco stamp (Gustav Genschow) next to the "V" on the butt. "Bavarian Municipal Police" was milled off left frame at some point. I figured it was shipped in Nov/Dec 1943.

 

[JustinL]

I received the letter on a Victory which I had posted here before, when I acquired it. V 121 432, unmarked top strap. See pictures below.

A few observations:
The gun shipped some months later than was to be expected based on the serial number. There is another gun, V 157 933, posted earlier in this thread, which shipped to the Maritime Commission at the same location on the same date; S&W apparently collected a batch to ship. As the snip from the U.S.M.C. Annual Report shows, Reading was a receiving warehouse for shipbuilding-related supplies.

The revolver you cite in your post is mine; it is neat to see another from that shipment. There is another member with a shipment to the same facility in January 1943 (post #652).

As far as I am aware these are the only three out there that 'letter' to that address. Curious that all should pop up within 2 years of each other. I guess more people are requesting letters for their DSC Victories.

 

[Absalom]

As far as I am aware these are the only three out there that 'letter' to that address. Curious that all should pop up within 2 years of each other. I guess more people are requesting letters for their DSC Victories.

It may just be a matter of people becoming aware of this thread. Relative to the military Victorys, there weren't that many to begin with.

These are really interesting. I'm not sure these actually fall under DSC guns; Roy always letters the "United States Maritime Commission Contract" separately from the "Defense Supply Corporation Contract for Commercial Sales", which makes sense since the U.S.M.C. was a public, not a commercial entity.

Also, Charles Pate talks about a batch of Colt Commandos that were apparently shipped to the U.S.M.C. on an Army contract, stamped "U.S. PROPERTY" and then used to equip ships supplied to Britain under Lend-Lease. So the Commission seems to have drawn guns from various sources.

And then there are the Victorys discussed above in this thread, which weren't actually shipped to the U.S.M.C or on the U.S.M.C. contract, but have the mysterious home-baked U.S.M.C. back strap marking, and at least one of which was shipped directly to a shipyard under the DSC contract, and that shipyard was certainly working within the general direction of the Commission. I'm hoping to eventually see the letter on the other one.

 

[NCchris]

Hi All,
I just discovered this thread after recently stumbling into this forum. I also have a Victory Revolver, it was my dad's and where he got it i have no idea.
S/N is V296088, is has a 4" barrel and is marked 38 S&W SPECIAL CTG on the right side of the barrel.
Topstrap is marked with the ordinance bomb, US Property GHD.
It has original walnut grips but not numbered to this gun, lanyard loop, and all numbers on the butt, under the barrel, and cylinder match.
The gun has strong remnants of a grey parkerised finish and is a very good shooter.
chris

 

[hankjeff]

Another Victory for your data base

I have a 4" barreled S&W Model 10 Victory (serial #V61410) with the following attributes:
"MADE IN USA" stamped on right side of frame;
S&W 'coat of arms' stamped also on right side of frame;
Cylinder stamped with "ENGLAND" aft of the cylinder stop notches;
"BNP" stamped on cylinder between each chamber (all 6);
No lanyard screw hole;
"BNP" also stamped on left side of frame where barrel attaches;
Top of barrel stamped "SMITH & WESSON, SPRINGFIELD, MASS. U.S.A." and PATENTED FEB. 8, 06 SEPT. 14, 09 DEC. 09,1....." final date information worn away;
Left side of barrel stamped "SMITH & WESSON";
Right side of barrel stamped "38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG";
A serial number stamped on the crane is 11753 (does not match the butt serial number!);
I can't find a serial number on the barrel.
The grips are not the when-issued wooden grips, they have been replaced with ones that are much more comfortable - stag grips?

I acquired this one in Denver in the mid-60's from a shop that did a lot business with local police and this pistol came from a normally closed display case (deals for the cops?).

I'm guessing that this is a Lend-Lease item that went to England in the early 40's. The mis-match of serial numbers suggests to me that the crane was for some reason replaced - perhaps the British proof test failed? (I assume BNP stands for Birmingham Nitro Proof?).

The fact that the barrel is stamped .38 spcl suggests that this was NOT a conversion from the UK .38/200 chambering. I have shot several hundred rounds of .38 spcl with it and have had no negative experiences. I do not intend to stretch my luck with +P loads though!

Any information you can dig up would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Absalom]

I have a 4" barreled S&W Model 10 Victory (serial #V61410) with the following attributes:
.......
Cylinder stamped with "ENGLAND" aft of the cylinder stop notches;
"BNP" stamped on cylinder between each chamber (all 6);
No lanyard screw hole;
"BNP" also stamped on left side of frame where barrel attaches;
Top of barrel stamped "SMITH & WESSON, SPRINGFIELD, MASS. U.S.A." and PATENTED FEB. 8, 06 SEPT. 14, 09 DEC. 09,1....." final date information worn away;
Left side of barrel stamped "SMITH & WESSON";
Right side of barrel stamped "38 S. & W. SPECIAL CTG";
A serial number stamped on the crane is 11753 (does not match the butt serial number!);
I can't find a serial number on the barrel.

A bit of a strange bird.
Are you sure the lanyard hole wasn't just carefully plugged?
The crane/yoke gets no serial number, just assembly numbers that don't match the serial, so no mis-match there.
The serial should be on the flat underside of the barrel. Nothing there?
The BNP is a Birmingham post-war commercial proof, although I haven't seen it applied that plentiful to the cylinder.
The serial dates the gun to the summer of 1942. At least the barrel is from a US-version Victory. Maybe a re-barrel?

 

[Ron M.]

Gave it a good going over today....

If the gun is indeed anywhere near the 98% condition you mentioned in your first post, has only a turn line, and is all-matching (butt, cylinder face, extractor star, grip panel, barrel flat), and has its lanyard swivel, then $375 would be a steal for a US-version Victory in .38 Special. This assumes you were able to ascertain that it's not a cut-down, re-finished, converted ex-British Victory; for that, the price would be much too high. Since you didn't notice any other marks, this latter scenario appears unlikely.

Thanks for the feedback! I verified all S/Ns, with the exception of the grip panel, which I did not remove, matched. There are no markings (flaming bomb, U.S. top strap designation, etc) on the revolver; if not for the lanyard ring, phosphate finish, somewhat rough tool markings and "V" designation, I would have mistaken it for a Model 10. Guess I got lucky for the price. Guy at the shop I got it from said it looks like it was hardly fired, just oiled once in a while and kept in a drawer.

 

[Absalom]

Thanks for the feedback! I verified all S/Ns, with the exception of the grip panel, which I did not remove, matched. There are no markings (flaming bomb, U.S. top strap designation, etc) on the revolver; if not for the lanyard ring, phosphate finish, somewhat rough tool markings and "V" designation, I would have mistaken it for a Model 10. Guess I got lucky for the price. Guy at the shop I got it from said it looks like it was hardly fired, just oiled once in a while and kept in a drawer.

No flaming bomb is odd; even the unmarked DSC and USMC guns usually have that. But otherwise, it sounds like the real thing. If you can swing a picture sometime, that'd be nice.

 

[Ron M.]

No flaming bomb is odd; even the unmarked DSC and USMC guns usually have that. But otherwise, it sounds like the real thing. If you can swing a picture sometime, that'd be nice.

Will try to this weekend. I guess when I show it off, I can't say it's "The Bomb"...inspector must have dozed off the day it went out the door...

 

[Ron M.]

Weird Bird I've got here....

Picked up the Victory yesterday and fully inspected it. No flaming bomb, nothing on the butt except the "V" serial number. If it weren't for the Victory designation and the phosphate finish, from it's manufacturing quality (no rough tooling marks) and lack of markings it would pass as a Model 10, consumer version.

 

[LOBO]

I hope these helped.

Hi Lobo:

Are there any left top strap markings?

there are,

it also has these,

 

[feconn]

New Victoy

Hello, just joined today with delivery of my new to me Victory, S/N V72959, no top strap markings, ordnance bomb on the butt. .38 special.

 

[ordnanceguy]

I hope these helped.

They did. Nice gun. Thank you, Lobo.

 

[DWalt]

Hello, just joined today with delivery of my new to me Victory, S/N V72959, no top strap markings, ordnance bomb on the butt. .38 special.

A fairly early Victory, in nice condition, which probably shipped around August 1942. With no property stamping on the topstrap and in .38 Special, it's probably a DSC revolver.

 

[Ron M.]

I purchased a .38 Special Victory, four inch barrel, smooth grips, 98% original finish revolver up here in Northern CA. Don't take possession until next Saturday, but numbers all match, S/N V11312. Did not see any military designations.

Here are the photos....

 

[DWalt]

At least from the picture is seems in good condition and original. Shipment ca. 6-7/1942. Without property stamping on the topstrap, it's probably a DSC revolver.

 

[Absalom]

Hello, just joined today with delivery of my new to me Victory, S/N V72959, no top strap markings, ordnance bomb on the butt. .38 special.

Here are the photos....

If either of you should decide to get a letter for your gun, be sure to post the results here.

An unmarked Victory is generally a more promising candidate for a history letter than a BSR or military-marked one, since guns shipped under the DSC or USMC contract were sent directly to the end user, which, in case of the DSC guns, could be a police agency, an armaments company, an aircraft manufacturer or any other non-military buyer working for the war effort in some way. Of course, you'd have to decide whether you can spare $50 and run the chance that your gun was sent to the Acme Paperclip Company in Anytown, for reasons lost to history . There is one letter posted here somewhere of a DSC Victory that was shipped to the Hershey Chocolate Company. Now that's a letter worth having. Can't win a war without chocolate!

 

[craigcole]

New to me victory. I think.

Hello,
I have a pistol with serial number V572770. It is bright blued with no caliber markings on the 2" barrel.
The condition is very good to excellent and looks to be too well finished to be a victory model.
The side plate says Made in USA
Marcas Registradas
Smith and Wesson
Springfield Mass

Any info you may have is appreciated. Thanks!

 

[craigcole]

New to me victory. I think.

additional photos

 

[DWalt]

Something is very strange about this one. With the V SN prefix (on butt) it would have to be a Victory from around mid-1944, but the 4-line address on the frame would put it from sometime in the postwar era (after mid-1948). That could have been done at S&W during a later visit for repairs. Grips are from no earlier than the early 1950s. Barrel SN differs from that of the gun, so it is not original. What, if anything, is stamped on the grip frame, under the grips? Regardless, it is a refinished parts gun and would be valued as such.

 

[old tanker]

Another relic of the British empire

Here is a reasonably early gun, serial 881544 would suggest late 1941 production. Marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" would indicate it is a Lend-Lease gun. The proofs are Australian and it underwent "Factory Thorough Repair" in 1954. (The cartridges shown are loaded with the NEI #169A bullet which is supposed to duplicate the 38-200)

 

[lamarw]

old tanker, Can you share your source for the NEI #169A bullets you referenced? I found one source thru Google by the name of Matt's Bullets. I might be interested in loading some up since I already reload .38 S&W with 145 grain powder coated bullets. It would be interesting to have something more akin to the original. Thanks~

 

[DWalt]

Here is a reasonably early gun, serial 881544 would suggest late 1941 production. Marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY" would indicate it is a Lend-Lease gun. The proofs are Australian and it underwent "Factory Thorough Repair" in 1954.

Interesting, as that is the lowest Pre-V SN on my list documented as having the United States Property stamp on the topstrap. And it would indeed have shipped in late 1941. I have asked several times if anyone knows exactly when the property stamping started.

 

[old tanker]

old tanker, Can you share your source for the NEI #169A bullets you referenced? I found one source thru Google by the name of Matt's Bullets. I might be interested in loading some up since I already reload .38 S&W with 145 grain powder coated bullets. It would be interesting to have something more akin to the original. Thanks~

The lead pot in the garage and recycled wheel weights. I've had that mould for maybe thirty years. I don't know of any commercial casters that cast a similar bullet.

NEI Handtools, Inc

 

[DWalt]

Western Bullets lists a 200 grain .360" bullet. Not the same profile as used for .38 S&W. See: Lyman #358430 200 gr.

 

[old tanker]

Interesting, as that is the lowest Pre-V SN on my list documented as having the United States Property stamp on the topstrap. And it would indeed have shipped in late 1941. I have asked several times if anyone knows exactly when the property stamping started.

Lend-Lease was enacted in March of 1941. How long it took to set up the bureaucracy, I don't know. I imagine that S&W still had contracts to fill, e.g., South Africa and England, before Lend-Lease production blocks began. Even then, I think I've read here there were some guns in the late 41 early 42 time period that were not marked.

 

[Absalom]

Lend-Lease was enacted in March of 1941. How long it took to set up the bureaucracy, I don't know. I imagine that S&W still had contracts to fill, e.g., South Africa and England, before Lend-Lease production blocks began. Even then, I think I've read here there were some guns in the late 41 early 42 time period that were not marked.

It is unlikely that the contracts of the British Purchasing Commission simply stopped with the enactment of Lend-Lease. The BPC officially existed until 1942, so there must have been items to purchase and contracts to continue.

 

[lamarw]

These are the .38 S&W Bullets listed by Matt's Bullets. I just found this site last night. 38 Cal. (38 S&W) : Matts Bullets

 

[DWalt]

"Even then, I think I've read here there were some guns in the late 41 early 42 time period that were not marked. "

That's what Pate says, but no details are provided. My guess is that there was a transition period during the late months of 1941 and the early months of 1942 during which some military revolvers (mainly .38/200s) had the property stamp and some did not.

 

[USMC0802]

V487360 - 4" .38 Special. "W" stamped on butt, along with small flaming bomb. No property marks.

I intend to order a letter on this one - has any more information come to light regarding "W" stamps and OSS shipment?