Tamukjavalena
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Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
DWalt
Member
Either. However, .38 S&W ammunition is considerably more difficult to find than .38 Special. Your cylinder picture shows that without a doubt the .38 S&W chambers have been reamed. The serial number suggests October 1944 as a shipping date.
Tamukjavalena
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Tamukjavalena
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Finish-wise your gun looks to be in pretty decent shape, better than a lot of those British service re-imports one sees today. The grip panels appear to have been given some sort of lacquering, though, if they are original. You can tell by checking if they (or one, usually the right one) have the gun's serial number stamped on the inner surface.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Update
I received the letter on a Victory which I had posted here before, when I acquired it. V 121 432, unmarked top strap. See pictures below.
A few observations:
The gun shipped some months later than was to be expected based on the serial number. There is another gun, V 157 933, posted earlier in this thread, which shipped to the Maritime Commission at the same location on the same date; S&W apparently collected a batch to ship. As the snip from the U.S.M.C. Annual Report shows, Reading was a receiving warehouse for shipbuilding-related supplies.
The interesting (although unanswerable) question is where this gun actually ended up. It appears unissued. It is not unfired; it has a turn line, and the post-purchase cleaning produced black, but that's likely just from a post-war owner putting some rounds through it. It has no holster wear or scratches, the lanyard swivel is stiff and certainly never swiveled, and there is only one indentation in a grip panel, likely a storage or transport ding.
In April 1943, the Emergency Shipbuilding Program was getting into full swing; it's not like the gun arrived too late to be used. Maybe some manager appropriated it, and it spent the war guarding a desk drawer.
I received the letter on a Victory which I had posted here before, when I acquired it. V 121 432, unmarked top strap. See pictures below.
A few observations:
The gun shipped some months later than was to be expected based on the serial number. There is another gun, V 157 933, posted earlier in this thread, which shipped to the Maritime Commission at the same location on the same date; S&W apparently collected a batch to ship. As the snip from the U.S.M.C. Annual Report shows, Reading was a receiving warehouse for shipbuilding-related supplies.
The interesting (although unanswerable) question is where this gun actually ended up. It appears unissued. It is not unfired; it has a turn line, and the post-purchase cleaning produced black, but that's likely just from a post-war owner putting some rounds through it. It has no holster wear or scratches, the lanyard swivel is stiff and certainly never swiveled, and there is only one indentation in a grip panel, likely a storage or transport ding.
In April 1943, the Emergency Shipbuilding Program was getting into full swing; it's not like the gun arrived too late to be used. Maybe some manager appropriated it, and it spent the war guarding a desk drawer.
Attachments
DWalt
Member
That is a little on the late side for shipment of a wartime gun. Others with nearby SNs shipped 5-6 months earlier.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I was thinking the same thing, since that's what you'd told me when I posted the gun initially. It's also a bit odd, referring to the other lettered Victory, that a shipment would contain two guns which are 36,501 serial numbers apart, assuming that at the peak of the war the stuff went out the door as quickly as possible. For some probably unknowable reason my gun must have sat around on a shelf at the factory for a while. Unfortunately, there is no information about the number of guns in that shipment, which would be interesting here.
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dawggunner
Member
V 431284
This Victory model seen at LGS. Stamped on the right side plate was: CONVERTED BY COGSWELL AND HARRISON, LTD, LONDON. There were no US Property markings on this V.
Revolver was in Good condition with unusual checkered grips (sorry no photos). Asking price is $450. I passed for now.
This Victory model seen at LGS. Stamped on the right side plate was: CONVERTED BY COGSWELL AND HARRISON, LTD, LONDON. There were no US Property markings on this V.
Revolver was in Good condition with unusual checkered grips (sorry no photos). Asking price is $450. I passed for now.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
They must have removed the top strap markings. You don't mention barrel length or the caliber it's claimed to be now, but I assume this started out as a Lend-lease BSR in .38 S&W and is now .38 Special, in which case I'm not aware of any that were left unstamped (unlike some US-version Victorys).
The conversion work would make it uninteresting for most collectors, and at any rate, for $450 it would have to be in exceptional condition for a BSR with any post-war markings. The non-original stocks don't help either.
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DWalt
Member
$450 is somewhat more than anyone who actually knows what it is would pay for it. I think they are hoping for a buyer that knows nothing about it.
dawggunner
Member
The caliber is as you said, conversion to 38 Spl. Ths gun does have the lanyard on the butt. I think the barrel was 4 or 5 inches. I did not check the right grip for a number, but the grips looked like the smooth originals that were checkered.
Is $375 too much to pay for this V.
Is $375 too much to pay for this V.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If the barrel was 4", they shortened that; the BSR's had 5" barrels. And one sees these often with later grips, since the frame is standard K size; checkering the original smooth grips would be a new one for me.
$375 would still be too high from my perspective. If you want a British Victory, you can find less modified ones with more residual historical value for that money (US PROPERTY stamp, original grips). And if you want a shooter, you can find a non-Victory all-original .38 Special M&P in decent condition for less.
DWalt
Member
Maybe $250 would be a good price for the C&H revolver. Those I have seen have checkered grips, probably just something C&W obtained somewhere, not original S&W grips. Not that they are bad guns for utility use, but they have no significant collector interest or value.
I purchased a .38 Special Victory, four inch barrel, smooth grips, 98% original finish revolver up here in Northern CA. Don't take possession until next Saturday, but numbers all match, S/N V11312. Did not see any military designations.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Welcome to the forum.
If by "military designations" you mean a "US PROPERTY" stamp, the absence thereof indicates a gun shipped under the DSC (Defense Supply Corporation) or USMC (United States Maritime Commission) contract. I posted about one of the latter a few posts above. Yours should have been made in mid-1942; only a letter from S&W would reveal the exact shipping date.
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Hope I didn't get taken....
I did get the name of the person who put it on commission. It might be worth the effort to contact her to get some background info. I figured it was for use in the U.S. by non-military personnel, perhaps at a factory dedicated to the war effort. I'm pretty sure it is an original .38 Special, due to the fact that there are no "Property" marks on the strap. I bought it because my first revolver was a Model 10, five inch barrel that I bought in the 1970's for a whole $60. Sold it like a dummy in the 1980's. Wanted another one. This one was close enough. The seller did mention that the mechanics had been gone through...and it feels pretty buttery. Only wear is a couple of cylinder marks from rotation of the cylinder. Was $375 too much? Thanks!
I did get the name of the person who put it on commission. It might be worth the effort to contact her to get some background info. I figured it was for use in the U.S. by non-military personnel, perhaps at a factory dedicated to the war effort. I'm pretty sure it is an original .38 Special, due to the fact that there are no "Property" marks on the strap. I bought it because my first revolver was a Model 10, five inch barrel that I bought in the 1970's for a whole $60. Sold it like a dummy in the 1980's. Wanted another one. This one was close enough. The seller did mention that the mechanics had been gone through...and it feels pretty buttery. Only wear is a couple of cylinder marks from rotation of the cylinder. Was $375 too much? Thanks!
DWalt
Member
I did get the name of the person who put it on commission. It might be worth the effort to contact her to get some background info. I figured it was for use in the United States by non-military personnel, perhaps at a factory dedicated to the war effort. I'm pretty sure it is an original .38 Special, due to the fact that there are no "Property" marks on the strap. I bought it because my first revolver was a Model 10, five inch barrel that I bought in the 1970's for a whole $60. Sold it like a dummy in the 1980's. Wanted another one. This one was close enough. The seller did mention that the mechanics had been gone through...and it feels pretty buttery. Only wear is a couple of cylinder marks from rotation of the cylinder. Was $375 too much? Thanks!
S/N V11312 would indicate shipment around July-August 1942. Without the "United States Property" topstrap stamp it would most likely be a Defense Supplies Corporation (DSC) revolver destined for essential stateside civilian use, such as defense plant guards or law enforcement. The next most likely possibility would be to the U. S. Maritime Commission (Merchant Marine). No one seems to know how many went there. Any Victory Model from that early in the run which is chambered in .38 Special is somewhat unusual, as a very high percentage of S&W's production was going to the British Commonwealth under the Lend-Lease program, and those were chambered in .38 S&W. Depending upon condition, $375 is not bad in today's world.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
....... Only wear is a couple of cylinder marks from rotation of the cylinder. Was $375 too much? Thanks!
If the gun is indeed anywhere near the 98% condition you mentioned in your first post, has only a turn line, and is all-matching (butt, cylinder face, extractor star, grip panel, barrel flat), and has its lanyard swivel, then $375 would be a steal for a US-version Victory in .38 Special. This assumes you were able to ascertain that it's not a cut-down, re-finished, converted ex-British Victory; for that, the price would be much too high. Since you didn't notice any other marks, this latter scenario appears unlikely.
Victory for Database
Purchased a Victory Model a couple of months ago and have learned a lot about it on this forum. I researched most of the markings on various websites, but would like to add to the database. S/N V465012. Need to figure out how to post pics!
Purchased a Victory Model a couple of months ago and have learned a lot about it on this forum. I researched most of the markings on various websites, but would like to add to the database. S/N V465012. Need to figure out how to post pics!
