Victory data base

[DWalt]

As far as I know, all of the true Victory (V-prefix) BSRs chambered in .38 S&W had 5" barrels. There may be exceptions I am not aware of. The US version Victories chambered in .38 Special had 4" barrels, plus a very few with 2" barrels. V748248 likely shipped very early in 1945. You say yours does NOT have the "U.S. PROPERTY" stamping on the topstrap? That's odd.

 

[Bohonkie]

Thanks. I've read so much today on several S&W guns that I probably got mixed up with the two different .38s.

 

[mharve_2000]

I have a Victory revolver I would like some information on. Serial number is V664689. This is stamped on the butt, underside of the barrel and on the cylinder. Grips are not original and the lanyard ring has been cut off sometime in the past. No US markings. Any information you could provide would be appreciated.

My factory letter came in. Looks like it was shipped in January 1945 to Phil Daniels in Phoenix City, Fl.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Phoenix City, Fl.

Is that correct? Maybe Phenix City AL? It's right outside Ft. Benning.

 

[mharve_2000]

Is that correct? Maybe Phenix City AL? It's right outside Ft. Benning.

That's what Smith & Wesson says.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

It could be a mistake. It's happened before. I would shoot Roy Jinks a PM and ask him to verify. Because there's not a Phoenix City Florida. There's a Panama City Florida and a Phenix City Alabama.

Guy

 

[Soultrain13]

Hello All! I just found this forum while looking for some info on some old guns I got from my late grandfather. This post had been very helpful so far.

I think I have a pair of victory revolvers, though they have had quite different lives. I would appreciate any information or advise about these guns.

1. V767077 - Aside from the grips, this one looks original. Chambered in .38 S&W, 5" barrel. It has "US Property GHD." stamped on the top. I have not shot it due difficulty finding ammo, but I have gotten two boxes and am planning on shooting it next time I'm at the range.

2. V233280 - Yikes. I think this is one of those infamous drill press .38 Specials. The barrel has been cut down to about 2 1/4", and the gun has been nickel plated. There are no markings on top of the gun, but there are some other marks on the barrel that I don't think are original to the gun. Maybe done when this was converted? There is no loop on the bottom of the grip, but there I can see where it used to be. The last time I had this one at the range, it was splitting shell casings in one of the cylinders. I have not shot it since.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

Bottom gun (2") is a barrel hacked British Service Revolver like the 1st gun. It was reamed for .38 Special which is smaller diameter than .38 S&W. If you shoot some .38 S&W, which you now have, in it, the cases won't split.

 

[codenamedave]

Soultrain13, both of your revolvers are what are known as British Service Revolvers (BSRs), made mainly for, you guessed it, the British, and some other commonwealth nations such as Canada and Australia.

V767077 was likely shipped in 1945, V233280 a few years earlier. The remains of the markings on the later that were left after refinishing were most likely the proof marks put on surplussed revolvers by the British government before they could be sold on the civilian market. Before reading this thread I had no idea that there was a metric ton of these "chopped & bored" surplus BSRs out there, and it seems the majority of them were plated and had plastic bone style stocks installed. The work was done after re-importation to try and make them more attractive for sale. Most experts say that it should be ok to shoot these with lower pressure .38 Specials, even if they split the cases, but personally I wouldn't want to shoot one even with .38 S&W cartridges due to the missing front extractor rod lock up. They have no value to a collector, just whatever someone would be willing to pay for a cheap shooter, say $200 range.

There should be the same added proof marks on V767077, if it had been in British hands and released through normal channels. Maybe this one was never entered into British service, or perhaps it sorta followed somebody home outside of official channels.

 

[Soultrain13]

Thanks for the replies all!

I have a set of smooth walnut grips on the way from Ebay for V767077. I like the way they look plus it will put it back to the correct look. My grandfather had a buddy who was an amateur gunsmith, so I thought V233280 was chopped by him, but after reading this thread, and seeing several conversions that look nearly identical, I'm not so sure now.

I know my grandfather bought these from a Toledo OH, pawn shop sometime in the 1950's or 1960's. There is a family story about V767077 being surplus from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. Unfortunately, the people I can ask only half remember. I looked it over, and there are no extra marks on it like on V233280. Thanks to mostly you guys, I have deciphered most of the markings on it. The only one I'm having trouble with is the one in front of the trigger guard underneath the cylinders. It looks like a pair of crossed swords, with a 1 on the left, a 2 on the bottom, and what I can only describe as a cat head on the right.

 

[Wiregrassguy]

The crossed swords is the proof house view mark. The numbers indicate where, when and by whom the gun was proofed. The Letter on the left indicates the year...a K would be 1959. The 2 is the rank of the inspector...the lower the higher the rank. And the B on the right indicates the Birmingham proof house. The proofing and all the stamps were only done when the gun was released from military to public usage.

 

[Absalom]

As far as V767077 is concerned, with the lend-lease property markings, and no additional stamps, the RCMP connection will likely remain unconfirmed.

The early Canadian-shipped BSR's did receive the broad-arrow-in-a-C Canadian property mark, but those were military guns, and whether this continued, let alone consistently, after the start of lend-lease, I am not sure.

On lend-lease guns, the history letter will show shipment to Hartford Ordnance Depot, with no info on further destinations.

Any secondary police career post-war would not be reflected anyways.

 

[DWalt]

V767077 indicates it's a very late Victory without the improved hammer drop safety, with likely shipment sometime in early 1945. In fact it is the highest V-series SN I have listed. With the various proof markings, I'd suspect it is not connected to the RCMP.

 

[codenamedave]

V767077 indicates it's a very late Victory without the improved hammer drop safety, with likely shipment sometime in early 1945. In fact it is the highest V-series SN I have listed. With the various proof markings, I'd suspect it is not connected to the RCMP.

What about V769527, or V769240, as previously posted in this thread? The other one higher than mine, but lower than Soultrain13's V767077, is V765493. All four of these are BSRs.

And a bit of a miscommunication with Soultrain13, the British proof marks visible in the additional pics are the "added proof marks" I was alluding to.

 

[KYThrill]

FYI. There was a Phil Daniels in Phenix City, AL who worked at Cunningham Fence. My guess is that if you were near a military base, and you were a company that installed/sold fencing during WWII, then you probably had military contracts. Thus the DoD issued firearms to defense contractors.

It could be a mistake. It's happened before. I would shoot Roy Jinks a PM and ask him to verify. Because there's not a Phoenix City Florida. There's a Panama City Florida and a Phenix City Alabama.

Guy

 

[Absalom]

FYI. There was a Phil Daniels in Phenix City, AL who worked at Cunningham Fence....

If you can document this guy, that's a good lead. Especially near military bases, there was hardly any manufacturing business that did not have some war-related contracts. Remembering previous discussions about DSC Victorys lettering as shipped to an individual whose association was not identified further, it usually turned out he was a manager at a company like that, or alternatively a police official.

 

[DWalt]

"What about V769527, or V769240, as previously posted in this thread?"
I found another one on my list (which was out of order) with an even higher SN: V774890 which shipped on 1/31/45. On my list are quite a few SV-series Victories having lower SNs. It makes one wonder what the highest-known V-series SN is. And the lowest of the SV-series.

 

[TitanNine]

Hi, I have a Victory with a bunch of numbers on it. The bottom of the grip frame on the rear half has V332, the front half looks like WB on the top and maybe half of an 8 on the bottom - these are on either side of the lanyard ring. The back strap has what looks like N ^ Z and 5397 below that. The cylinder are and frame strap (?) are both marked V 46298 (with the V above the number). The top strap is marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". It will not chamber a 38 special, but does chamber a 38 SW and the barrel is marked "38 S&W CTG" on the side. Top of the barrel has the company name, and several patented dates, Feb 08, Sept 09, Dec 14. Can you tell me anything about this model?

 

[Absalom]

Hi, I have a Victory with a bunch of numbers on it. The bottom of the grip frame on the rear half has V332, the front half looks like WB on the top and maybe half of an 8 on the bottom - these are on either side of the lanyard ring. The back strap has what looks like N ^ Z and 5397 below that. The cylinder are and frame strap (?) are both marked V 46298 (with the V above the number). The top strap is marked "UNITED STATES PROPERTY". It will not chamber a 38 special, but does chamber a 38 SW and the barrel is marked "38 S&W CTG" on the side. Top of the barrel has the company name, and several patented dates, Feb 08, Sept 09, Dec 14. Can you tell me anything about this model?

Welcome to the forum. You have a lend-lease British Service Revolver from 1942. Let's deal with the stampings in the order you mention them.

V332 is the serial. WB are the initials of the ordnance inspector Waldemar Broberg, the "8" is actually a "flaming bomb" symbol.

The backstrap markings denote New Zealand service.

I can't make sense of the sentence "The cylinder are and frame strap (?) are both marked V 46298 (with the V above the number)"
If you are referring to the cylinder ARM and the area we call the yoke, those numbers are meaningless to us as they are just factory-internal assembly numbers.

The topstrap property marking denotes the lend-lease status.

The gun appears to not have been converted and still be in its original .38 S&W caliber, or .38/200, as it was also called, the official British army caliber.

The markings on top of the barrel are standard factory patent dates.

 

[FSTRN]

Hi,
Just picked up my second Smith and Wesson and my first Victory.
SN# V (lanyard hole) 478636

It is in excellent mechanical condition with strong rifling and tight lock-up. Looks nice, too, however it does appear to have been modified a bit. On the top strap is the ordinance bomb with "US PROPERTY GHD"(this marking is obscured and barely discernible). There is a "P" stamp behind the cylinder just below the top strap; after the SN under the barrel; and on the rear cylinder face. The right side of the 4" barrel indicates "38 S&W special ctg".

The finish is a deep blue with little wear at the edges. Sadly, the trigger and hammer are jeweled. The walnut grips are diamond checkered over the entire surface except the bottom. The revolver came with a black Redhead holster marked 206HDB.

What can anyone tell me about what I've got? Is there any chance the finish may be original?
Thanks,
Chris