Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
Going to an auction Saturday and this Victory is on the list. It's one of my biggest interest but I'm new to this and don't want to over pay. S/N V132996.
Only 2 pictures I have until Saturday are from the auction website...
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Only 2 pictures I have until Saturday are from the auction website...
Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The resolution of the pictures is not good enough to be 100% certain, but all I see points to an Australian-refinished British Service variant. Unless it's the light, the trigger and hammer appear polished to the white, uncommon on the Aussies and detrimental to the value. If not reamed for .38 Special, maybe a $300 - 350 gun, but I'd have to see it in person. I wouldn't buy it based on just those two photos.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
British Service model from late 1942, maybe November (+/-).
These went to Britain and other Commonwealth nations as Lend-lease. It should have UNITED STATES PROPERTY on the left topstrap. Based on your photos it appears all-original.
grinder.1
Member
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It does have it stamped yes. Would these have been given to Canadian troops? And thanks for the info.
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Rambler,
I would question the finish on your Victory. From what I can see the hammer appears to
have a finish other than the case hardening that I am accustomed to seeing. The trigger
also usually case hardened I cannot make out.
Your Victory, I believe, is the nicest one I have ever seen. That is the reason I question it.
terry
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Could have been. Your photos don't show any of the post-war commercial proofs usually found on British-issued revolvers. I think, but am not sure, that the Canadians stopped applying their property mark once Lend-lease started and the guns came with a US property mark, so this would be consistent with a Canadian issue.
What is this?
I've been reading, and it looks like this might be a V model, if not sorry for posting in the wrong place. My dad bought this in 1974 for $60. What is it and what's it worth?
Serial number on the bottom of the barrel: V282560
Thanks in advance!
I've been reading, and it looks like this might be a V model, if not sorry for posting in the wrong place. My dad bought this in 1974 for $60. What is it and what's it worth?
Serial number on the bottom of the barrel: V282560
Thanks in advance!
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Welcome to the Forum, donkoz.
You have a refinished Victory model, probably from the early production (1942?). The grips have been replaced. Someone with more knowledge than mine will be along soon, I'm sure.
Price on the street, $250 or so. Since your daddy bought it 45 years ago, priceless.
You have a refinished Victory model, probably from the early production (1942?). The grips have been replaced. Someone with more knowledge than mine will be along soon, I'm sure.
Price on the street, $250 or so. Since your daddy bought it 45 years ago, priceless.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The serial places it in mid-1943.
You show the serial on the underbarrel, which is indeed the correct serial. But the legal primary serial (same number) should be on the bottom of the butt, next to a (likely plugged) hole for the lanyard swivel this gun used to have.
Also, is there a US PROPERTY GHD stamping visible on the top strap above the cylinder?
Ok. I have a good(bad) one to show.
5 inch barrel. .38 S & W. Refinished, it's now blued instead of parkerized. Barrel has no number at all. Assembly numbers on frame and crane don't match. Cylinder number does not match. A good thing, it still has it's own sideplate.
. It's marked US property GHD on the top strap and p behind the cylinder. And it's marked Bavaria Municipal Police. No British marks. A marking I can't decypher above the front end of the trigger guard. Serial number V666397(great three first numbers, right?).
It's still a work in progress. It came with the bolt plunger bushing missing. Fixed that only to find out the crane was out of whack so the latch will not close because the center pin will not align with the hole. currently waiting for the tool to fix that to arrive.
But it was the only M & P type I found. So I bought it anyway
Edit. Almost forgot. It has "modern" German civilian proof marks.
Now my usual lousy pictures.
5 inch barrel. .38 S & W. Refinished, it's now blued instead of parkerized. Barrel has no number at all. Assembly numbers on frame and crane don't match. Cylinder number does not match. A good thing, it still has it's own sideplate.
. It's marked US property GHD on the top strap and p behind the cylinder. And it's marked Bavaria Municipal Police. No British marks. A marking I can't decypher above the front end of the trigger guard. Serial number V666397(great three first numbers, right?).It's still a work in progress. It came with the bolt plunger bushing missing. Fixed that only to find out the crane was out of whack so the latch will not close because the center pin will not align with the hole.
currently waiting for the tool to fix that to arrive.But it was the only M & P type I found. So I bought it anyway
Edit. Almost forgot. It has "modern" German civilian proof marks.
Now my usual lousy pictures.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Then the butt serial has been scrubbed thoroughly, and it's technically illegal. Since the property stamp could have been there or not, we can't know anymore.
So the frame, originally made in mid-1944, was a Bavarian Police gun issued in early 1946 and then sold commercially (the proofs) in Germany. If the barrel does not have a German proof (I can't see one), it was replaced after the gun left Germany. I can't make out that other marking either.
Lobo, sorry for delay, Hamilton County (Ohio) Sheriff.
franck1963
Member
Hello everybody
Mine is V367699, US property on frame, G. H. D
38 s&w. Parkerized finish. Parachuted to french resistance by S.O.E (Someone was engraving his initials on left grip...)
Mine is V367699, US property on frame, G. H. D
38 s&w. Parkerized finish. Parachuted to french resistance by S.O.E (Someone was engraving his initials on left grip...)
DWalt
Member
Closest one I have listed is SN V662384, shipping on 8/22/44. Does it have a U. S. PROPERTY topstrap stamping? What is the caliber and barrel length?
DWalt
Member
Then it is most probably what is called the DSC version (Defense Supplies Corporation). DSC was a government agency, one of its functions being procurement of handguns for essential civilian users, such as civilian law enforcement agencies and defense plant security guards. During WWII, most sales of new guns to civilians was discontinued, as everything was going to the military (also true for automobiles). The fact that your Victory has no topstrap property stamping indicates it was not shipped for military service. There are other possibilities, for example, guns supplied to the Merchant Marine and OSS, which are similarly unmarked. But in the grand scheme, almost all Victories without a topstrap property stamping will be DSC.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The gun would be from later 1943, maybe August.
Since your header says USA/France, may we assume the gun is in France and you have some provenance on it? Both SOE and OSS did provide these to the resistance.
DWalt
Member
"DWalt ,
As previously stated (V661635) does have the tops trap stamped with the flaming bomb + US PROPERTY GHD."
Sorry, that did not register. Too much in a hurry I guess. With the topstrap stamping, it's about 99% certain it went to the U. S. Navy. GHD are the initials of Col (later Brigadier General) Guy H. Drewry, Army Inspector of Ordnance for the Springfield Ordnance District. See: Brigadier General Guy H. Drewry, Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 1996, U.S. Army Ordnance Corps
As previously stated (V661635) does have the tops trap stamped with the flaming bomb + US PROPERTY GHD."
Sorry, that did not register. Too much in a hurry I guess. With the topstrap stamping, it's about 99% certain it went to the U. S. Navy. GHD are the initials of Col (later Brigadier General) Guy H. Drewry, Army Inspector of Ordnance for the Springfield Ordnance District. See: Brigadier General Guy H. Drewry, Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 1996, U.S. Army Ordnance Corps
hello, just joined the forum and i would like to know more about the victory model i just picked up. S/N V492072 has what appears to be german proof stamps, RH stock has complete SN stamped in it. any information would be great. forgot to add, has a "Geco" stamp on the butt.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It shipped originally in early 1944.
After the war, it was issued by US occupation authorities to Bavarian police in early 1946, where it remained into the 1950s. The milled-out area on the left frame said most likely BAVARIA (on top) and RURAL or BORDER POLICE (on the bottom). It looks a bit short for MUNICIPAL, the other option.
Then it was sold, with many companions, to Geco, a large dealer/wholesaler, who put his mark on it and had it commercial-proofed for Germany, and from there it made its way through the surplus market into your hands.
DWalt
Member
I have seen several others having the German police markings milled off. I have read that some of these revolvers were sold off very cheaply through U. S. Military Rod and Gun Clubs at bases in Germany during the postwar period.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It is not clear who did the milling, but at least by my unscientific observation there are more ex-Bavarian revolvers in the market with the marking intact than with it milled out. I also know for a fact that Bavaria sold these centrally, so they were all treated alike, which means the milling occurred post-service by some subsequent wholesaler.
In view of the more restrictive gun laws in West Germany which limited the customer base, selling these cheaply to rod-and-gun clubs on US bases, most conveniently located in Southern Germany where these guns were on offer, was an attractive option.
Another Victory to add. Purchased at a gun show approximately a year ago for $600. S/N on the butt, bottom of the barrel, and rear face of the cylinder is V390652. Right grip also has the same serial number. The 5" barrel has the typical Smith & Wesson patent information on the top, Smith & Wesson on the left side, and 38 S & W Special Ctg on the right side. The upper top strap has, starting from the front, the flaming bomb, U S Property, G.H.D. The right side plate has the S & W trademark logo. Bottom right side of the frame has Made In USA. Overall the parkerized revolver is in excellent shape. Very faint turn line on the cylinder and hardly any wear to the finish on the ejector rod.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The serial places the gun in later 1943.
But there is a problem. At that point in time, there were no Victory models made in .38 Special with a 5" barrel. So a gun with 5" barrel, .38 Special on that barrel, and matching serials on butt and barrel flat cannot exist unless it's a complete post-war rebuilt from unmarked M&P parts, which would be odd.
Are you certain that you measured the barrel length correctly?
DWalt
Member
I noticed the same thing. At that time, only those Victories chambered in .38 S&W had 5" barrels, and those with 4" barrels left the factory chambered for .38 S&W Special. Those are two different cartridges. Are you sure that the original factory barrel stamping says .38 S&W Special CTG, or is it possibly .38 S&W CTG? So something is amiss in your description or else your Victory is not in its original as-manufactured configuration. The barrel length is measured from the front face of the cylinder to the muzzle.
The closest SN on my list to your V390652 is V389892 which shipped in 9/43.
The closest SN on my list to your V390652 is V389892 which shipped in 9/43.
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