Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The gun would be from later 1943, maybe August.
Since your header says USA/France, may we assume the gun is in France and you have some provenance on it? Both SOE and OSS did provide these to the resistance.
DWalt
Member
"DWalt ,
As previously stated (V661635) does have the tops trap stamped with the flaming bomb + US PROPERTY GHD."
Sorry, that did not register. Too much in a hurry I guess. With the topstrap stamping, it's about 99% certain it went to the U. S. Navy. GHD are the initials of Col (later Brigadier General) Guy H. Drewry, Army Inspector of Ordnance for the Springfield Ordnance District. See: Brigadier General Guy H. Drewry, Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 1996, U.S. Army Ordnance Corps
As previously stated (V661635) does have the tops trap stamped with the flaming bomb + US PROPERTY GHD."
Sorry, that did not register. Too much in a hurry I guess. With the topstrap stamping, it's about 99% certain it went to the U. S. Navy. GHD are the initials of Col (later Brigadier General) Guy H. Drewry, Army Inspector of Ordnance for the Springfield Ordnance District. See: Brigadier General Guy H. Drewry, Ordnance Corps Hall of Fame Inductee 1996, U.S. Army Ordnance Corps
hello, just joined the forum and i would like to know more about the victory model i just picked up. S/N V492072 has what appears to be german proof stamps, RH stock has complete SN stamped in it. any information would be great. forgot to add, has a "Geco" stamp on the butt.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It shipped originally in early 1944.
After the war, it was issued by US occupation authorities to Bavarian police in early 1946, where it remained into the 1950s. The milled-out area on the left frame said most likely BAVARIA (on top) and RURAL or BORDER POLICE (on the bottom). It looks a bit short for MUNICIPAL, the other option.
Then it was sold, with many companions, to Geco, a large dealer/wholesaler, who put his mark on it and had it commercial-proofed for Germany, and from there it made its way through the surplus market into your hands.
DWalt
Member
I have seen several others having the German police markings milled off. I have read that some of these revolvers were sold off very cheaply through U. S. Military Rod and Gun Clubs at bases in Germany during the postwar period.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It is not clear who did the milling, but at least by my unscientific observation there are more ex-Bavarian revolvers in the market with the marking intact than with it milled out. I also know for a fact that Bavaria sold these centrally, so they were all treated alike, which means the milling occurred post-service by some subsequent wholesaler.
In view of the more restrictive gun laws in West Germany which limited the customer base, selling these cheaply to rod-and-gun clubs on US bases, most conveniently located in Southern Germany where these guns were on offer, was an attractive option.
Another Victory to add. Purchased at a gun show approximately a year ago for $600. S/N on the butt, bottom of the barrel, and rear face of the cylinder is V390652. Right grip also has the same serial number. The 5” barrel has the typical Smith & Wesson patent information on the top, Smith & Wesson on the left side, and 38 S & W Special Ctg on the right side. The upper top strap has, starting from the front, the flaming bomb, U S Property, G.H.D. The right side plate has the S & W trademark logo. Bottom right side of the frame has Made In USA. Overall the parkerized revolver is in excellent shape. Very faint turn line on the cylinder and hardly any wear to the finish on the ejector rod.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
The serial places the gun in later 1943.
But there is a problem. At that point in time, there were no Victory models made in .38 Special with a 5” barrel. So a gun with 5” barrel, .38 Special on that barrel, and matching serials on butt and barrel flat cannot exist unless it’s a complete post-war rebuilt from unmarked M&P parts, which would be odd.
Are you certain that you measured the barrel length correctly?
DWalt
Member
I noticed the same thing. At that time, only those Victories chambered in .38 S&W had 5" barrels, and those with 4" barrels left the factory chambered for .38 S&W Special. Those are two different cartridges. Are you sure that the original factory barrel stamping says .38 S&W Special CTG, or is it possibly .38 S&W CTG? So something is amiss in your description or else your Victory is not in its original as-manufactured configuration. The barrel length is measured from the front face of the cylinder to the muzzle.
The closest SN on my list to your V390652 is V389892 which shipped in 9/43.
The closest SN on my list to your V390652 is V389892 which shipped in 9/43.
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I recently was shown a revolver I was told was RCMP issued, and was wondering about it's provenance.
It's a 38spl S&W model 10 ( I believe) with serial number V636851, can anyone tell me the date of issue? I'm sorry I don't know any more markings, are there marks I should look for that might give more information?
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It's a 38spl S&W model 10 ( I believe) with serial number V636851, can anyone tell me the date of issue? I'm sorry I don't know any more markings, are there marks I should look for that might give more information?
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Welcome to new members max136, Jetfixer3 and LAJW III.
LAJW III, you have a .38 Victory model from WW II. Model numbers were not assigned by S&W until 1957.
How long is the barrel and how does the caliber stamp read? Generally, 4" barreled Victories were chambered in .38 special and 5" barreled Victories were chambered in .38 S&W, which is a shorter, fatter cartridge that does not interchange with the .38 special. However, after the war, many of the .38 S&W revolvers were rechambered to .38 special.
LAJW III, you have a .38 Victory model from WW II. Model numbers were not assigned by S&W until 1957.
How long is the barrel and how does the caliber stamp read? Generally, 4" barreled Victories were chambered in .38 special and 5" barreled Victories were chambered in .38 S&W, which is a shorter, fatter cartridge that does not interchange with the .38 special. However, after the war, many of the .38 S&W revolvers were rechambered to .38 special.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
In regards to the RCMP, while anything is possible during wartime, the RCMP’s issue sidearm from the early 1900s until the early 1950s was the .455/.45 Colt New Service, and there seems to be no compelling reason why they should have ended up with a different brand and different caliber. So unless there is any kind of documentation, any connection would be hard to prove. There was no standard identifying marking which I’m aware of, and the gun, no matter which type of Victory it is, would be unlikely to letter directly to a foreign agency at that time.
The revolver, based on the serial, was made in mid-1944.
Thanks for the date info!
No documentation on the RCMP link, it's just a Canadian guy who has it! [emoji38]
Probably what he was told third or fourth hand, who knows.
Which cartridge is this chambered in, 38spl or 38S&W? The barrel seems... ambiguous to me.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
LAJW-
Read the (four-inch) barrel! It's a .38 Special. No idea how a Canadian got it, but no RCMP provenance.
Their guns usually have an intertwined MP marking, BTW.
They adopted the M&P in 1954, and it became the Model 10 after 1957. Their guns had five inch barrels, commercially blued, and were std. until replaced by S&W DA-only 9mm's, I think around 1990.
Guns like that shown are known mainly for USN use, esp. by aviators. But USAF used many during the Viet war, due to shortages of our Combat Masterpiece .38. I often wore a Victory model then.
Read the (four-inch) barrel! It's a .38 Special. No idea how a Canadian got it, but no RCMP provenance.
Their guns usually have an intertwined MP marking, BTW.
They adopted the M&P in 1954, and it became the Model 10 after 1957. Their guns had five inch barrels, commercially blued, and were std. until replaced by S&W DA-only 9mm's, I think around 1990.
Guns like that shown are known mainly for USN use, esp. by aviators. But USAF used many during the Viet war, due to shortages of our Combat Masterpiece .38. I often wore a Victory model then.
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Barrel says 38S.&W.Special, that's why I was asking. You're saying that means 38spl, good enough for me.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Yes, .38 S&W Special is the ctg. There was a .38 Colt Special, differing only in having a flatter nose profile on the bullet.
You seem BADLY in need of basic gun knowledge. I suggest finding and buying Geoffrey Boothroyd's, The Handgun, Crown Publishers, 1970 and Elmer Keith's, Sixguns, 1961 rev. ed. Those are a good basic start in learning.
You seem BADLY in need of basic gun knowledge. I suggest finding and buying Geoffrey Boothroyd's, The Handgun, Crown Publishers, 1970 and Elmer Keith's, Sixguns, 1961 rev. ed. Those are a good basic start in learning.
Thanks for being rude to someone asking for help. The other member above stated that 38S&W was different from 38SPL. The weapon I was asking about is marked with both terms.
I'm sorry my knowledge of 80 year old guns isn't up to your standards.
I'll stick with my 19 years (so far) of experience with modern weapons across 7 years of combat in three theaters.
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