Victory data base
- Thread starter zonker5
- Start date
It is possible the British lanyard loop has a larger diameter shank and the butt has had the hole drilled out. Luckily, original lanyard loops are inexpensive, so if it doesn't fit, you could resell it here.
Can you just change the loop ? I will look at this , when I looked at the grips there was a pin folded on a piece of real old brown tape stored under the grips . maybe I should get the right loop or just get the whole stud and loop combo .
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Good morning,
Another Victory Model for the database, serial number V705505 in .38 S&W. All matching numbers, 5" barrel, also stamped US PROPERTY GHD on top strap. Very good plus condition. Located in Canada. Thanks, Gerry
Another Victory Model for the database, serial number V705505 in .38 S&W. All matching numbers, 5" barrel, also stamped US PROPERTY GHD on top strap. Very good plus condition. Located in Canada. Thanks, Gerry
R61414
Member
Smith & Wesson Victory Model .38 S&W
I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson Victory Model that can be added to the data base. This is a .38/200 British Service Revolver made for the Lend Lease Program, matching serial numbers #V136764 on the bottom of the gun butt, rear face of cylinder, rear face of yoke and bottom of barrel. I cannot locate a serial number on the backside of the extractor star. The stocks appear to be period correct but the serial number (380298) does not match to this gun.
-Top Left Strap: "United States Property".
-Left Side of barrel: "SMITH & WESSON".
-Left Side of frame: Under cylinder (importer) "VEGA SAC CA.", back strap under grip "V".
-Right Side of barrel: ".38 S&W CTG".
-Right Side of frame:
"D (arrow) D"
"MADE IN U.S.A."
"FTR/MA 53"
"(arrow) underlined "M"?
"23"
"L"
Yoke: "87878"
Frame Inside Yoke: "87878" with a "4" above it.
-Bottom of grip frame: SN "V136764", "WB", "8", small "P".
Barrel is 5" and bore appears to be in "like new" condition. I have confirmed that the cylinder will take .38 S&W cartridges but will NOT accept .38 S&W Special cartridges, so it appears that no one attempted to convert it to .38 S&W Special.
It is my understanding that the markings indicate this gun went to Australia and a "Factory Thorough Repair" was done at the Australian arsenal in 1953. If anyone can provide more information about this gun, like the manufacturing date, confirmation and or corrections of my understanding or other information, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
I recently purchased a Smith & Wesson Victory Model that can be added to the data base. This is a .38/200 British Service Revolver made for the Lend Lease Program, matching serial numbers #V136764 on the bottom of the gun butt, rear face of cylinder, rear face of yoke and bottom of barrel. I cannot locate a serial number on the backside of the extractor star. The stocks appear to be period correct but the serial number (380298) does not match to this gun.
-Top Left Strap: "United States Property".
-Left Side of barrel: "SMITH & WESSON".
-Left Side of frame: Under cylinder (importer) "VEGA SAC CA.", back strap under grip "V".
-Right Side of barrel: ".38 S&W CTG".
-Right Side of frame:
"D (arrow) D"
"MADE IN U.S.A."
"FTR/MA 53"
"(arrow) underlined "M"?
"23"
"L"
Yoke: "87878"
Frame Inside Yoke: "87878" with a "4" above it.
-Bottom of grip frame: SN "V136764", "WB", "8", small "P".
Barrel is 5" and bore appears to be in "like new" condition. I have confirmed that the cylinder will take .38 S&W cartridges but will NOT accept .38 S&W Special cartridges, so it appears that no one attempted to convert it to .38 S&W Special.
It is my understanding that the markings indicate this gun went to Australia and a "Factory Thorough Repair" was done at the Australian arsenal in 1953. If anyone can provide more information about this gun, like the manufacturing date, confirmation and or corrections of my understanding or other information, I would greatly appreciate your feedback.
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Triaxle ,
If I were in your shoes I would not be in a hurry to swap out the lanyard ring assembly , especially if it is of the same vintage as the revolver , albeit British. While it is probably not original to the gun , the replacement you buy will not be either.
Any and all speculation about who installed that ring , and why he did it , will end with the upgrade.
At the very least I would hold out for an original rather than repro. (if such an item is available...?)
That's my $.02. It's your gun.
If I were in your shoes I would not be in a hurry to swap out the lanyard ring assembly , especially if it is of the same vintage as the revolver , albeit British. While it is probably not original to the gun , the replacement you buy will not be either.
Any and all speculation about who installed that ring , and why he did it , will end with the upgrade.
At the very least I would hold out for an original rather than repro. (if such an item is available...?)
That's my $.02. It's your gun.
ordnanceguy
Member
Thank you, Gerry. This one is now in the Database.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Thank you, very thorough write-up.
You do indeed have a Lend-Lease Victory that ended up in Australian hands. V 136764 would have most likely originally shipped in later 1942, October or November.
The FTR occurred at Lithgow Small Arms Factory (MA) in 1953. The gun was re-imported to the US by Vega Arms in the late 1980s; these were generally not converted and are found in their original .38 S&W.
I do believe that your gun was re-refinished once more after the FTR. The finish it has now, while actually closer in appearance to the original Victory finish, does not match the texture of the Lithgow job. Also the trigger and hammer appear to have been polished. Finally, your close-up of the FTR markings shows them clearly UNDER the finish; the Lithgow stamps went on top of their finish and always show white through; see my attached example.
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ordnanceguy
Member
I think you already have a very good handle on your revolver. It is indeed an Australian example that was brought back to the USA in the 1990s by the importer Vega Arms of Sacramento, CA. From the Database I can estimate for you that your revolver likely shipped from the factory in the October-November, 1942 time frame.
HTH.
R61414
Member
S&W Victory Model
Absalom & Ordnance Guy,
Thank you for your prompt responses and insight. I think Absalom is probably correct about the gun being refinished sometime after FTR. Both of you really know your S&W's and have a keen eye for details the many of us would miss. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and perspective.
While my gun is not a U.S. Military Victory Model, which I knew when I bought it, and has probably been refinished twice since WWII, I am still proud to own it. I am happy to add it to my collection of WWII firearms Remington manufactured 1903 Springfield, Springfield manufactured M1 Garand, Inland manufactured M1 Carbine, Union Switch & Signal manufactured 1911 A1 and Ithaca manufactured 1911 A1 that I pick up at my LGS this evening.
Absalom & Ordnance Guy,
Thank you for your prompt responses and insight. I think Absalom is probably correct about the gun being refinished sometime after FTR. Both of you really know your S&W's and have a keen eye for details the many of us would miss. I greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and perspective.
While my gun is not a U.S. Military Victory Model, which I knew when I bought it, and has probably been refinished twice since WWII, I am still proud to own it. I am happy to add it to my collection of WWII firearms Remington manufactured 1903 Springfield, Springfield manufactured M1 Garand, Inland manufactured M1 Carbine, Union Switch & Signal manufactured 1911 A1 and Ithaca manufactured 1911 A1 that I pick up at my LGS this evening.
You may want to have this gun lettered. I had a Victory model once with that same sideways W and was told it could possibly be an O.S.S. gun. I had it lettered and it was an O.S.S. gun. Shipped to United States Strategic Service (O.S.S.) in Aug of 1944.
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
It shipped most likely around September 1943.
Victory land lease but runs .38 Special
Came across this one with Serial number: V144369. Has the G.H.D. and P marking. There are some marking on the barrel that look to be British Crown.
Question:
1.Year of this revolver?
2.If most if not all the British land lease ones are .38-200, has this one been refinished to .38 Special?
3. Following on the logic above, does this look like it has been reblued or modified in other ways?
Thank you for your time and counsel.
Link to Pictures
Box
Came across this one with Serial number: V144369. Has the G.H.D. and P marking. There are some marking on the barrel that look to be British Crown.
Question:
1.Year of this revolver?
2.If most if not all the British land lease ones are .38-200, has this one been refinished to .38 Special?
3. Following on the logic above, does this look like it has been reblued or modified in other ways?
Thank you for your time and counsel.
Link to Pictures
Box
Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I took your quote apart; answers below each question.
Came across this one with Serial number: V144369.
1.Year of this revolver?
Produced in late fall 1942. The post war Birmingham proofs on the barrel mean it was surplused in Britain before 1955.
2.If most if not all the British land lease ones are .38-200, has this one been refinished to .38 Special?
You'll have to check the chamber by inserting a live .38 Special round. They didn't usually mark them after converting as that happened after service. The .38 S&W CTG is the .38/200, in case you're unclear on that; S&W did not mark these .38/200.
3. Following on the logic above, does this look like it has been reblued or modified in other ways?
Yes. The 5" barrel has been cut, the front sight reattached, and the gun reblued. In the V-prefix series, there were no 4" barreled guns made in .38 S&W. And the finish is much too polished and not the sandblast Victory finish.
Came across this one with Serial number: V144369.
1.Year of this revolver?
Produced in late fall 1942. The post war Birmingham proofs on the barrel mean it was surplused in Britain before 1955.
2.If most if not all the British land lease ones are .38-200, has this one been refinished to .38 Special?
You'll have to check the chamber by inserting a live .38 Special round. They didn't usually mark them after converting as that happened after service. The .38 S&W CTG is the .38/200, in case you're unclear on that; S&W did not mark these .38/200.
3. Following on the logic above, does this look like it has been reblued or modified in other ways?
Yes. The 5" barrel has been cut, the front sight reattached, and the gun reblued. In the V-prefix series, there were no 4" barreled guns made in .38 S&W. And the finish is much too polished and not the sandblast Victory finish.
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Thank you Absalom!
I got to check the chamber, a .38 special round fits. This actually was part of the reason that prompted me to seek opinion on how heavily modified this one has been. Because I thought all British one would be .38-200. And a .38 special fitting it was odd.
On the rebluing, is there a chance that earlier models were blued instead of the more common sandblast finish? Or is it true that any production from Fall of 1942 would have been sandblast finish?
At the same time, since it was cut to 4" from 5", maybe that's why they reblued it after the cutting? For education, how do you decern the front sight is reattached? I would have never caught that one. Aside from thinking the 4" barrel on a Brisith model was a little odd.
I got to check the chamber, a .38 special round fits. This actually was part of the reason that prompted me to seek opinion on how heavily modified this one has been. Because I thought all British one would be .38-200. And a .38 special fitting it was odd.
On the rebluing, is there a chance that earlier models were blued instead of the more common sandblast finish? Or is it true that any production from Fall of 1942 would have been sandblast finish?
At the same time, since it was cut to 4" from 5", maybe that's why they reblued it after the cutting? For education, how do you decern the front sight is reattached? I would have never caught that one. Aside from thinking the 4" barrel on a Brisith model was a little odd.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
On the rebluing, is there a chance that earlier models were blued instead of the more common sandblast finish?
None whatsoever. The rough sandblast surface finish was adopted in spring 1942, before the actual Victory V-series actually started, and remained the only finish used until the end.
For education, how do you decern the front sight is reattached? I would have never caught that one.....[/QUOTE]
I actually didn't catch that by itself, it was the inevitable deduction from the shortened barrel, which is clear not just from knowing that no 4" barrels were used at that time in .38 S&W, but also that the position of the caliber stamping on the barrel corresponds to a 5" barrel; it's further back on an original 4" barrel.
None whatsoever. The rough sandblast surface finish was adopted in spring 1942, before the actual Victory V-series actually started, and remained the only finish used until the end.
For education, how do you decern the front sight is reattached? I would have never caught that one.....[/QUOTE]
I actually didn't catch that by itself, it was the inevitable deduction from the shortened barrel, which is clear not just from knowing that no 4" barrels were used at that time in .38 S&W, but also that the position of the caliber stamping on the barrel corresponds to a 5" barrel; it's further back on an original 4" barrel.
I actually didn't catch that by itself, it was the inevitable deduction from the shortened barrel, which is clear not just from knowing that no 4" barrels were used at that time in .38 S&W, but also that the position of the caliber stamping on the barrel corresponds to a 5" barrel; it's further back on an original 4" barrel.[/QUOTE]
Thank you again, this is invaluable info. And appreciate you sharing the knowledge and time. Will keep looking for a different (less modified) revolver.
Neat post on the milsurps forum about a squadron Victory serial number log. Maybe one of our members has one from the log. I have linked the post here and attached the two photos of the log.
Gun Log Naval Squadron Navy Victory .38
Gun Log Naval Squadron Navy Victory .38
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samoyed
Member
Wow. If only we could find gun logs for all the USN squadrons
I just acquired (well, still on layaway) this beautiful Lend-Lease Australian Victory model.
SN: V196042 (cylinder matches)
Assembly number: 19433 (also matching arm/frame)
G.H.D. on butt.
D/|\D FTR MA/53
Vega import.
38S&W caliber
I believe it is early 1942 but any better dating and potential unit affiliation, if possible, is appreciated.
I posted more photos on the Ejector model main page titled "Australian Victory Model pawn shop find"
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
SN: V196042 (cylinder matches)
Assembly number: 19433 (also matching arm/frame)
G.H.D. on butt.
D/|\D FTR MA/53
Vega import.
38S&W caliber
I believe it is early 1942 but any better dating and potential unit affiliation, if possible, is appreciated.
I posted more photos on the Ejector model main page titled "Australian Victory Model pawn shop find"
Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
dsparker10000
Member
- Joined
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- Messages
- 12
- Reaction score
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I have two M&Ps from this period.
1) V96974, 4" barrel, 38 S&W Spl, Parkerized, "U.S.Navy" on top strap. My dad picked this up in 1967 but I don't have any other information.
2) 973313, 4" barrel, 38 S&W Spl, Parkerized. Seems to have been produced just prior to the victory series so not sure it belongs here. Given to my dad from his father in 1957. My grandfather was a sheriff around for some time before that, so maybe he used it as a service revolver? My dad's inventory lists this gun as "Civilian Victory Model".
David
1) V96974, 4" barrel, 38 S&W Spl, Parkerized, "U.S.Navy" on top strap. My dad picked this up in 1967 but I don't have any other information.
2) 973313, 4" barrel, 38 S&W Spl, Parkerized. Seems to have been produced just prior to the victory series so not sure it belongs here. Given to my dad from his father in 1957. My grandfather was a sheriff around for some time before that, so maybe he used it as a service revolver? My dad's inventory lists this gun as "Civilian Victory Model".
David
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Nice ones. The Victory finish isn't "parkerized", although it looks similar unless you spend a lot of time with utility finishes. The term is Sandblast Black Magic.
There is a remote possibility that the pre-Victory 973313 was actually parkerized, one of the 2187 guns so finished as a trial "around serial 980,000". But there is no way to really tell.
That gun could well have been a service gun. These were supplied to police agencies during the war as well as afterwards as surplus, and also bought surplus by frugal officers required to provide their own sidearms.
What do I have here?
Just picked this up and I'm hoping someone could share a bit of info and history. Six inch barrel in 38S&W; bluing appears to be original. Not sure if grips are original, but they are fit to the frame perfectly. S/N 740765 - matching on frame, cylinder and barrel. "P" on the butt with serial #. Variety of British proofs (BV, BP, NP) as well as "Not English Made" stamped twice - once on barrel and once on frame. C with an up arrow proof on the frame. Crossed swords with an "E", "B" and "1" on the frame. Any thoughts? Thanks much.
Just picked this up and I'm hoping someone could share a bit of info and history. Six inch barrel in 38S&W; bluing appears to be original. Not sure if grips are original, but they are fit to the frame perfectly. S/N 740765 - matching on frame, cylinder and barrel. "P" on the butt with serial #. Variety of British proofs (BV, BP, NP) as well as "Not English Made" stamped twice - once on barrel and once on frame. C with an up arrow proof on the frame. Crossed swords with an "E", "B" and "1" on the frame. Any thoughts? Thanks much.
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Absalom
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Interesting gun.
It's originally from spring 1941, likely March/April, and was deliverd to Canada likely on a direct-purchase contract, but possibly through the British Purchasing Commission. That's where it got the Canadian military property stamp arrow/C. But it ended its career in Britain or at least in the hands of a British surplus dealer who had it commercially proofed at Birmingham for sale in 1954; those are the proofs on the barrel and frame, including the crossed-sceptres viewmark (E=1954).
The stocks are earlier, 1920s non-medallion M&P stocks.
