Video for Russian fans

[ammodave]

Here's a neat video for you Russian fans [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdwPvD8JZ84&feature=youtu.be[/ame]. Finally a reasonable explanation for the trigger guard spur.

 

[jleiper]

Interesting, but quite a few production date and production number errors as well as some historical errors.

I do like the trigger spur explanation.
Joe

 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

I have to disagree about the explanation for the spur on the trigger guard of the Russian Model.

This 2nd Model Russian left the factory in 1875. I have fired it both the conventional way and with a finger hooked on the trigger guard spur.

Much more awkward and uncomfortable to shoot using the spur as a finger rest. Just does not work as well as firing it conventionally.

As most here know, the 1st Model Russian looked exactly the same as the American Model. Same grip shape, same lack of the trigger guard spur, same everything. The only difference it was chambered for the then brand new 44 Russian cartridge.

For the next build, the Russians specified the big 'knuckle' on the grip and the trigger guard spur. The reason given for the knuckle was it prevents the gun from rotating in the hand in recoil, which it does very well.

The most common explanations for the trigger guard spur are.
Finger rest,
parrying sabre blows,
hanging the pistol from a sash or belt.

None of these really makes any sense. If any of them were true, why were the spurs cut off so many Russians that made it to the Old West.

And why, was the trigger guard spur deleted from the Schofield Model?

And except for some sold to Japan and Turkey, why did the New Model Number Three not have the trigger guard spur, if it was such an improvement?

The simplest explanation is, the Russians wanted the trigger guard spur because it was a more European embellishment.

 

[rct269]

I have yet to watch the video, nor have I fired the gun; but I own the Duffy NM #3 pictured on page 190 of N&J (Revised). It stands to reason the individual who ordered the gun intended to use/grasp the spur---because he paid extra to have it there---and because he paid extra to have it checkered. (The gun letters with both.)

While I obviously cannot speak objectively about it, I can play let's pretend. To use the spur incorporated within a one hand grip strikes me as fun for the feeble-minded. To use it for the index finger of the off hand with a two hand hold strikes me as GREAT!!

Ralph Tremaine

And if some wild-eyed Turk, Son-of Nippon, or Rusky is coming at me with one of those swords mentioned by Gary (below), I'm going to shoot him as many times as I can-----and then run as fast as I can in the other direction----blade deflecting trigger guard spur be damned!! My Momma didn't raise no dumb kids!!

 

[glowe]

I have shot hundreds of rounds of ammo through the various 44 Russians I have owned and you cannot find a more uncomfortable way to shoot this model than by holding it as was done in the video. You are grasping a heavy revolver at the very base of a long butt by only two of your smallest fingers and lose most control of the gun. It is not at all hard to cock the revolver with all fingers behind the spur, high on the butt grip, and that gives you a much steadier grip when shooting than the other way. Because the spur is mounted so low at the bottom of the trigger guard, it forces you hand to the bottom of the butt and this is just not the way to hold a revolver.

Think about the countries that ordered this gun. I do not believe there were any countries in the world, in the mid-1800s, with more dependence on swords than Japan, Russia (Cossacks and military) and Turkey. All three countries used various swords as their primary was weapon for centuries and that continued well into the Ninetieth Century. The spur offers almost total finger protection from a bayonet or sword strike. Think about the widespread use of these important swords by all three countries. They are: Turkey - Kilij, Pulwar, Saif, Shamshir, Tulwar, Yatagan, Japan - Katana, Wakizashi, Odachi, Tachi, Russia – Sabres, Shashka, Cossack Sabre, and kindjal. These were proud countries with proud traditions of blade warfare, so it is easy to think about ways to protect your troops from such an attack.

 

[iby]

Triggerguard spur.

I like Gary's theory best of all I have heard.
Shooting or cocking with fingers on the spur is awkward at best.

 

[glowe]

I wish records existed that would supply the answer, but after this many years, it is probably very unlikely to be located. We may never know the reason for the spur, but it's fun to guess. I will say that Roy & Neal's book does state it was a finger rest and was stated as such in The Book, but I never could hold it and hit anything doing that.

I think my theory may be better than the one offered in the video, or at least the reasoning why they came up with their answer. These were always uncomfortable guns to shoot, partly because the hammer is set far away from the butt-stock & grip knuckle. Plus, I did notice that the woman shooting, using the videos recommended method, had to push her hand forward of the knuckle to reach the hammer, while her middle finger was on the spur. That means that with any method used, you have to rotate the palm over the knuckle to effectively cock the hammer.

I shot a pair of these revolvers once and awhile in SASS shoots and had a great time doing it. Lots of comments from the crowd. Most of them were - "when is he going to be done??" These are very slow to shoot, because of the stiff action and there is just no way to rapidly cock the gun, unlike a Colt SA or S&W American, Schofield, or New Model 3. Here are my S&W shooters and a rig that I made from an old mouse eaten horse collar, from my SASS days.