Wad Cutters for Defence

[RacingSnake]

What kind of velocity is required to make a 38 special wad cutter a viable defence load?

I've chronographed a few different 38 special wad cutter loads and they are obviously pretty slow when compared to standard and +p but they do have the advantage of helping to keep the gun on target and are cheaper to practice with.

I'd appreciate your thoughts...


Regards, Racingsnake

 

[windypoint]

I would answer that one by emphasizing proper shot placement. It does not take a lot of velocity if you can put it where you want to put it.

 

[Clay H.]

All of the factory wadcutter loads will penetrate 16-19" in 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin, and are a good choice for snubs where a standard pressure low recoil cartridge is desired. I prefer the wadcutter load from Black Hills Ammo. High velocity is not needed with these loads.

Regards,

Clay

 

[ronnie gore]

wadcutter

i used to load hollow base wadcutters with the hollow base up, makes a wicked hollow point, they will open up nice at moderate speeds.

 

[one eye joe]

RacingSnake, Jim Cirillo, the VERY BEST of the ACTUAL modern day gunfighters, did a great deal of experimentation with ammo in developing weapons and loads to be used during his stint with the elite NYPD Stake Out Squad. He did much work with wadcutters, and developed some VERY effective loads. It would behoove you to read his book.......Jim Cirillo Book – Guns, Bullets, and Gunfights :: Blue Sheepdog

 

[jimmyj]

i used to load hollow base wadcutters with the hollow base up, makes a wicked hollow point, they will open up nice at moderate speeds.

Back "In The Day" this was a awesome defense round at close range. I never got any accurracy from this load at beyond 21 feet.
At close range the bullet expanded to a lead donut when tested.

 

[vytoland]

proficiency with shot placement, a S&W snub nose and DEWC, (mine are @ 825fps) make a good defensive combination. Its what I use for practice and ccw (as soon as illinois joins the rest of the group and no longer sits in the dunce's corner)

 

[charlie sherrill]

I once saw a guy who had been shot with a "reverse" wadcutter. He pulled a .22 and fired one bad shot at an investigator who returned fire with a S&W model 38 loaded with them. The guy was hit from about 30" and the round went through his heart. The perp never got off another shot nor did the investigator need another shot. That old mod 38 became mine several years later and is in need of a serious reblue as I've carried it off and on for over 40 years and a lot of the finish is worn off of it. My friend Leland loaded me several of the backward wadcutters and I have several house guns loaded with them.

 

[medxam]

I can assure you that after 40+ years of digging projectiles from dead bodies, a reverse wad cutter does tremendous damage. Shot placement is ALWAYS critical, but these soft expanding lead projectiles make very big nasty holes!

 

[OKFC05]

Until "magnumitis" set in during the last half of the 20th century, 148gr of soft lead at 700fps was considered more than adequate for close range defense, for shooters who could hit their target.

Not too shabby in a 3" model 60 for knocking off small game either.

 

[Elmer]

All of the factory wadcutter loads will penetrate 16-19" in 10% calibrated ordnance gelatin, and are a good choice for snubs where a standard pressure low recoil cartridge is desired. I prefer the wadcutter load from Black Hills Ammo. High velocity is not needed with these loads.

Regards,

Clay

Exactly.

I'm planning on shooting this through some barriers into gel. Should be interesting.

 

[Elmer]

Until "magnumitis" set in during the last half of the 20th century, 148gr of soft lead at 700fps was considered more than adequate for close range defense, for shooters who could hit their target.

Not too shabby in a 3" model 60 for knocking off small game either.

Most factory wadcutters really aren't that soft. That, combined with their sharp shoulder, allows them to penetrate deeply, and crush and cut tissue while they're doing it. Most of the old IWBA guys I run into are still carrying 148 wadcutters in their 2" lightweight guns.

 

[john traveler]

A standard velocity wadcutter load is one of the better .38 Special loads to carry in a 2" revolver. I've known of one-shot stops and several homicides using this load.

Please be advised that the American Rifleman technical advisor no longer recommends hot loading backwards .38 wadcutter bullets. Seems the think hollowbase tends to blow off or otherwise gets stuck in the forcing cone all to often.

 

[off road]

While wad cutters were a reasonable choice "back in the day", there has been so much bullet development since then....that I think one can readily find better alternatives! Why go back to the stone age???

 

[pete950]

Racingsnake here is my perfered carry load "Jim Cirillo's Safe Stop"

 

[OKFC05]

While wad cutters were a reasonable choice "back in the day", there has been so much bullet development since then....that I think one can readily find better alternatives! Why go back to the stone age???

Fair question. I recommend Gold Dots for students to carry for defense, but several physically impaired (arthritis, etc) people have been persuaded to carry .38 WC instead of going all the way down to a .22, or just forgetting the whole idea of having a gun.

Not here, but I have heard some people rant that anything less than .38 +P+ HP was "no better than a sharp stick," which is demonstrably NOT true.
We sometimes forget that the majority of the population is not composed of healthy young males.

 

[alaskavett]

There effective for sure when loaded in reverse. What comes to mind is the "caution or warnings" I have herd from the L.E. community and the dreaded Lawyers on this very subject. It seems such" modified" self defense ammunition or "home brew" for self defense brings with it a firestorm of additional scrutiny... Yes, better to be judged by a group of piers then carried out unable to defend your self any further. Any one have any information on additional harassment about this issue? Obviously things are bad if and when you have to shoot some dirt bag.. Kyle

 

[Elmer]

While wad cutters were a reasonable choice "back in the day", there has been so much bullet development since then....that I think one can readily find better alternatives! Why go back to the stone age???

Because many of the readily available and touted alternatives, will perform worse than the WC. Many of the "high performance" .38 special loads suffer from lack of penetration. A projectile that expands and makes a "big hole", but doesn't go deep enough to damage something important, isn't a good choice, no matter how new it is.

 

[skeetshooter]

+! from Ronnie Gore

 

[Elmer]

There effective for sure when loaded in reverse. What comes to mind is the "caution or warnings" I have herd from the L.E. community and the dreaded Lawyers on this very subject. It seems such" modified" self defense ammunition or "home brew" for self defense brings with it a firestorm of additional scrutiny... Yes, better to be judged by a group of piers then carried out unable to defend your self any further. Any one have any information on additional harassment about this issue? Obviously things are bad if and when you have to shoot some dirt bag.. Kyle

Though often brought up by dramatic gun writers, your choice of ammunition in an otherwise justified use of deadly force will have little bearing.