Why wadcutters for self-defense?

[photoman]

One of the best visual representations of what various bullet types do in ballistic gelatin can be viewed in slow motion at High Speed Video.

Solids in general are poor self defense rounds, they can work but they are far from the best choice. Watch the slow motion video of the .38 spl Federal wad cutter from a snub nose and compare it to the .380 solid round nose or the PMC JHP along with the 9x18 Silver bera JHP that fialed to expand. You will see essentially no difference in performance. Then compare it to the . 38 spl 135gr Gold Dot and the 110gr +P+ treasury load and any of the other JHP's in .380 acp, 9mm or .357 mag.

If you still think solid non expanding bullets are the way to go then so be it.

The primary reason for recommending the wadcutter is to increase the probability of effective shot placement. The best wonder bullet in the world will do us no good if we can't hit the target (and there is no doubt that some cannot hit the target using 135gr Gold Dots in an Airweight but they can using the wadcutter).

 

[Ironhand]

I'm wanting to try a box of Buffalo Bore's 150gr. wadcutter as a carry load in my M49 Bodyguard. I bought a "value-box" of UMC 125gr. JHP +P when I purchased the gun, but I"m definitely going to use another round for it after my CCW comes in.

 

[Stu Honea]

It's a good idea to review the difference between 20% gelatin and 10% ordnance gelatin for testing. This can make a great deal of difference in testing results.
I'm all about modern designed hollow points.but the wadcutter has a role for sure ,and is effective due to it's cutting effect and penetration.

 

[johnsonl]

Wadcutters cut a nice clean hole through whatever they hit.

 

[photoman]

I'm wanting to try a box of Buffalo Bore's 150gr. wadcutter as a carry load in my M49 Bodyguard. I bought a "value-box" of UMC 125gr. JHP +P when I purchased the gun, but I"m definitely going to use another round for it after my CCW comes in.

Be forewarned that even the "standard pressure" Buffalo Bore ammo is very high recoil.

They offer a standard pressure 110gr Barnes load that I've got on order. I look forward to testing that one. Should have less recoil than the heavier loads they sell and the Barnes bullet is the best available in my opinion.

 

[Stu Honea]

Be forewarned that even the "standard pressure" Buffalo Bore ammo is very high recoil.

They offer a standard pressure 110gr Barnes load that I've got on order. I look forward to testing that one. Should have less recoil than the heavier loads they sell and the Barnes bullet is the best available in my opinion.

Agree on the Barnes bullets.Every one I have tested has given great penetration and blossomed out like rose petals.

 

[Ironhand]

Be forewarned that even the "standard pressure" Buffalo Bore ammo is very high recoil.

They offer a standard pressure 110gr Barnes load that I've got on order. I look forward to testing that one. Should have less recoil than the heavier loads they sell and the Barnes bullet is the best available in my opinion.

I understand about recoil, but I"m also not going to be firing it out of an Airweight, either. Granted, a Bodyguard isn't an N-frame, but the extra weight should help a little bit.

 

[Animal_Mother556]

Anyone use Hollow based wadcutters and load them upside down?

 

[papajohn428]

I've done it............and it worked, but you still had to get the bullet into a liquid medium for it to be a consistent expander. At one point I even glued BB's into the hollow to force expansion, it helped but the rounds weren't all that consistent. I shot them into waterlogged phone books, and the wound channels were shallow but still impressive, lots of evulsed "tissue".

I didn't have a snubby back then, so I was using a 4" 357 with seven grains of Bullseye.......pretty hot stuff. Loads as low as four grains still expanded, but not as violently. I still have the bullets somewhere...........

My current snubby load is the 110-grain Critical Defense in warmer weather, but if heavy clothing is likely to be involved I go back to the FBI load for better penetration. The intact slug was fired into denim-covered water jugs, the other two were recovered from wetpack after 5" of penetration.

 

[Animal_Mother556]

So, you are a big believer in the Critical Defense? I have wanted to try the stuff....

 

[papajohn428]

I've tested the Critical Defense stuff in several calibers, namely 380, 38, 40 and 45, and while the bullets are light-for-caliber, they do exactly what Hornady says they will do. In wetpack (with a 4-ply denim barrier) and water jugs they hold together, penetrate reasonably well and they expand just the pictures in the ad copy. At halitosis range, they look pretty good!

 

[Pigirondan]

I use the 150 grain Buffalo Bore wadcutters as my carry load and the Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHP as my reload. YMMV

 

[Redleg2814]

Does Remington sell the bullet component for their R38S12 LSWCHP ammunition? I've checked on some sites and can only find Rem HP or REM Wadcutters. There is never a mention of both. I have plenty of UMC/Remington brass and would like to reload this round, if possible.

 

[PeterCartwright]

I read it often on this site, and it's always relevant: standard weight projectiles tend to shoot to point of aim in fixed sighted guns. Guess that wouldn't make much difference at the "halitosis" distance to which papajohn refers, but it's comforting to know a load will also work if that stretches a bit. At least it seems that way to a plain old civilian concealed carrier like me. Consequently, like pj, I like the (yawn) Remington load.

PC

 

[tedog]

Massad Ayoob does not recommend any reloads for self defense. His reasons refer to your defense if you are charged and go to court for shooting someone. I can't remember what was the jest of his article, but you should research it.

 

[Triggernosis]

Does Remington sell the bullet component for their R38S12 LSWCHP ammunition? I've checked on some sites and can only find Rem HP or REM Wadcutters. There is never a mention of both. I have plenty of UMC/Remington brass and would like to reload this round, if possible.

Redleg,
Speer makes a 158 gr. LSWCHP - I've got a box of 500 myself....well, make that about 350 now ;-).

 

[Boge]

The Speer .38 Special +p 135 gr. has over 1,300 documented LEO shootings and from what I hear the performance is stellar. The only load I that I think is better would be the 110 gr. DPX SCHP. Solid copper HP's flat out work and smoke everything else, no ands, ifs, ors or buts about it. Yes, these rds. may be somewhat expensive but the average civilian needs to shoot a few cylinderfuls (if that) to find the POA and call it a day. You don't need to emulate Mannix and do a reverse half gainer off of a fire escape while simultaneously shooting out the X Ring at 25 yds. The Buffalo Bore 158 gr. regular & +p are good shooters, but every test I've seen they failed MISERABLY in the 4 layer denim/ballistic gel tests. I really think the lead is too hard. They use Rim Rock bullets, FWIW. The Rem. 158 gr. +p SWCHP is better IMO as it is far softer and more apt to mushroom. It's a "soft"shooter as well for those who can't take recoil in a LW snubby.

I only carry a .38 as a backup so this isn't critical for me. However, I load Corbon DPX 110 gr. SCHP's or the Speer 135 gr. +p.

 

[pete950]

The Speer .38 Special +p 135 gr. has over 1,300 documented LEO shootings and from what I hear the performance is stellar. The only load I that I think is better would be the 110 gr. DPX SCHP. Solid copper HP's flat out work and smoke everything else, no ands, ifs, ors or buts about it. Yes, these rds. may be somewhat expensive but the average civilian needs to shoot a few cylinderfuls (if that) to find the POA and call it a day. You don't need to emulate Mannix and do a reverse half gainer off of a fire escape while simultaneously shooting out the X Ring at 25 yds. The Buffalo Bore 158 gr. regular & +p are good shooters, but every test I've seen they failed MISERABLY in the 4 layer denim/ballistic gel tests. I really think the lead is too hard. They use Rim Rock bullets, FWIW. The Rem. 158 gr. +p SWCHP is better IMO as it is far softer and more apt to mushroom. It's a "soft"shooter as well for those who can't take recoil in a LW snubby.

I only carry a .38 as a backup so this isn't critical for me. However, I load Corbon DPX 110 gr. SCHP's or the Speer 135 gr. +p.

where did you find the 1300 doucumented shooting on the 135GDHP I would like to read a little.

 

[Wayne Dobbs]

I would also like to have the source of documentation for 1300 revolver shootings involving the 135 +P Gold Dot.

Thanks in advance for your information source.

 

[Boge]

I read it being bandied about on Stopping Power Forums by some of the LEO's over there. I have no primary source as to the best of my understanding most PD's don't allow that stuff out publicly in today's PC enviornment. Since this has been the issue load to NYPD, Baltimore PD, etc., for nigh onto a decade I can easily see that number as feasible. The NYPD began keeping these records in 1971, a year in which the police in New York City fatally shot 93 people and injured 221 others. In 2010 they killed 8 & injured 16. The shootings are really down there, or maybe the moron anti-gun mayor Bloomberg makes them call his office for the "go ahead" before pulling the trigger!!