hi-power man
Member
thanks 147 Grain
Why wadcutters for self-defense?
- Thread starter Triggernosis
- Start date
Snowman92D
Member
I remember the same thing when I went on in 1971. One of our old guys shot an idiot with a knife at the auto desk one night during a squabble over an impounded vehicle. One of the officer's 148-grain wadcutters struck the suspect in the wrist and lodged there, failing to penetrate through and strike the suspect's chest.
Another of the officer's WC bullets barely made it into the suspect's lung after penetrating a heavy winter coat and the suspect's chest wall. The suspect turned and ran down the corridor to the central desk officer at the front door. He stood there rubbing his wrist and loudly demanding to see the sub-station OIC about his car. He wasn't aware he'd been shot in the chest until they got him to the ER.
Those 148-grain WC loads are the darlings of the gell-o shooters, for sure. But their popularity quickly evaporates among those who carry a snubbie for serious purposes. The 148-grain WC's duplicate the old black powder 150-grain .38 Long Colt load that the U.S. military attempted to use on the Moros during the Phillipine Insurrection. I think we all know how that turned out.
I'm not sure why anyone would choose something of that performance level when there are snubbie loads, like the 135-grain +P Gold Dot, that are proven performers with agencies like NYPD, LAPD and others.
Jack Flash
Member
Wadcutters may not be ideal for use in speed loaders, but they can certainly be the first-line cartridges already in the cylinder.
If you shoot all six and then need to reload, you may well want to go to something a little more potent anyway.
If you shoot all six and then need to reload, you may well want to go to something a little more potent anyway.
Last edited:
Wouldn't trust wadcutter at std.vel. Have a good friend who's a vet. Ocassionally he'll have to put a steer down. One one animal he used target wadcutters to the cows forehead. After 2 rounds that failed to penetrate he had to resort to a centerfire rifle (only other gun he had with him).
In my opinion, NONE of the new whiz-bang bullets on the market today can hold a candle to the damage a wadcutter can do to flesh. After you see your first wadcutter hole in guts, you will always have a cylinder full of them at your disposal.
Badkarma 1
US Veteran
I read somewhere that wadcutters tend to tumble when the get into a body. Wheter or not it's true I don't know!
That said I think you should know that Federal is reintroducing the old "Chiefs Special" load the S&W pioneered a long while back! What it is, is a dead soft 125gr HP coated in nylon (hence the name "Nyclad") that does expand out of snubbies and was designed with airweights like your model 37 in mind.
I have used this load in my model 60 and 49 before realizing they'd take a little +P without turning to dust. But if I owned a 37 or any other airweight, I load it with these Nyclads!
For use on critters, either will do the job. Dale
That said I think you should know that Federal is reintroducing the old "Chiefs Special" load the S&W pioneered a long while back! What it is, is a dead soft 125gr HP coated in nylon (hence the name "Nyclad") that does expand out of snubbies and was designed with airweights like your model 37 in mind.
I have used this load in my model 60 and 49 before realizing they'd take a little +P without turning to dust. But if I owned a 37 or any other airweight, I load it with these Nyclads!
For use on critters, either will do the job. Dale
tripledipper
Member
Just ordered some Fiocchi .38sp 148gr WC from Bud's to play around with since I have been using mostly 130gr FMJ(Winchester/Remington) junk from Walmart for target shooting. Hope I bought a decent product since I have no experience with WC's. The price seemed right. I read a BB advertisement in which they said theirs would cause a hell of a wound but that was a 158gr WC.
I've been trying a Green Dot equivelent behind a 148 DBWC at about 700fps. The load is accurate but the recoil is harder than I expected from a WC.
Is a faster burning powder better for WC's when aiming for higher velocity - I guess 800-850fps is about the limit?
Racingsnake
Is a faster burning powder better for WC's when aiming for higher velocity - I guess 800-850fps is about the limit?
Racingsnake
True this. It's all about the meplat.
As far reloading, you could have other type of rounds in your speedloader.
Joe
badguybuster
Member
Subscribed to a very informative thread.
Fast forwarding through 8 years of truth & denial, the Remington .38 LSWCHP +P from my 2" barrel revolver penetrated 12"-14" in bare gel with .58" expansion. In gel with 4 layers of denim it penetrated 11" to 12" with same expansion. It expanded every time in the bare gel and it expanded more times than not into the denim. On the rare occasion when it didn't expand after the denim it penetrated 16"-18" which is still ok. So with Hornady’s failure to fire’s and Speer claiming that their 38 +p 135 gr Short Barrel “EXCELS THROUGH FBI PROTOCOL TESTS” only because it does a penetration in bare gel of 11” and in IWBA Heavy Clothing [denim] of 13” I will stick with the LSWCHP's. They are ready to go right out of the barrel, no fuss, no muss, no worry. I got them in my 2" revolver and my 4" revolver.
Black_Talon
Member
The claimed stats for the Speer GDHP seem virtually identical to the results you saw using the 158 LSWCHP. Why would that make you decide in favor of the LSWCHP?
m1gunner
US Veteran
The term "wad cutter load" usually refers to target loadings in the 38 sp. These are OK for farm pests, but not great for SD carry.
The same bullet when loaded to over 900 fps makes an excellent SD load, IMHO. It will have the same bark and recoil of any other full 38 sp load, but it will cut a better hole without the need for expansion.
The same bullet when loaded to over 900 fps makes an excellent SD load, IMHO. It will have the same bark and recoil of any other full 38 sp load, but it will cut a better hole without the need for expansion.
Eight reasons: [1]Using the Rem .38 LSWCHP +P, I don’t need 2 types of ammo, (one for my 4” barrel and one for my 2” barrel). [2]The Rem .38 LSWCHP +P is all soft lead with no copper jacket so in a Snubby I don’t have to worry about will it or won’t it open due to velocity. [3]SPLAT! that soft lead either opens up big and wide or even if it don't open it will flatten out bigger and wider than a failed copper HP will. [4]I don’t like being lied to; Speer says “Our 38 +p 135 gr Short Barrel EXCELS THROUGH FBI PROTOCOL TESTS”. Actually 11”of penetration in bare gel is 1” LESS than the FBI minimum so no “EXCELING” there and I would hardly call 13” penetration in the IWBA Heavy Clothing [denim] “EXCELING”. I called Speer and asked them: Why did it penetrated more in the denim test than it did in the bare gel test? Their answer was “because it failed to open up in the denim”. Huh! [5]The Rem .38 LSWCHP +P has a long successful track record, it was the first hollow point. [6]That big 158gr hunk of lead gets the job done. Several lesser reasons are, [7]The Speer .38 +p 135gr Short Barrel costs 40% – 50% more than the Rem .38 LSWCHP +P. [8]Even if somebody wants some Speer .38 +p 135gr Short Barrels, there has been none available for the last 3 months. Good luck
Back in the early 80's my buddy and I were shooting +P's out of our snubbies into a 50 gallon drum. They left nice holes in the drum and we were all happy. His dad came out with his .38 and promptly popped off a round that left a nasty gash the size of a thumb. As he walked away he mumbled "nice little holes boys, I prefer wadcutters". That really busted our chops and showed that the harder to shoot rounds may not be the best to use if you really want to stop a fight. One of life's lessons this man taught me.
Stu Honea
Member
Although it has been stated that the old FBI loads do not expand well from snubs,I've never personally seen any testing on it,but have seen some people shot with it.When we started using it in the seventies,it dropped several incorigible people post haste. Did so from 2 inch guns also.
amazingflapjack
US Veteran
As to reloading dificulties when using LSWC's-either with or without speed loaders, or moon clips, try chamfering the cylinder bores.
Steve C
Member
One of the best visual representations of what various bullet types do in ballistic gelatin can be viewed in slow motion at High Speed Video.
Solids in general are poor self defense rounds, they can work but they are far from the best choice. Watch the slow motion video of the .38 spl Federal wad cutter from a snub nose and compare it to the .380 solid round nose or the PMC JHP along with the 9x18 Silver bera JHP that fialed to expand. You will see essentially no difference in performance. Then compare it to the . 38 spl 135gr Gold Dot and the 110gr +P+ treasury load and any of the other JHP's in .380 acp, 9mm or .357 mag.
If you still think solid non expanding bullets are the way to go then so be it.
Solids in general are poor self defense rounds, they can work but they are far from the best choice. Watch the slow motion video of the .38 spl Federal wad cutter from a snub nose and compare it to the .380 solid round nose or the PMC JHP along with the 9x18 Silver bera JHP that fialed to expand. You will see essentially no difference in performance. Then compare it to the . 38 spl 135gr Gold Dot and the 110gr +P+ treasury load and any of the other JHP's in .380 acp, 9mm or .357 mag.
If you still think solid non expanding bullets are the way to go then so be it.
Last edited:
