Wad Cutters for Defence

Oh, heck... I might as well break my own promise. When in Rome... :D



It's a very interesting read indeed, but I still see little correlation between civilian self-defense shootings and LE shootings. To the best of my knowledge, the former does not involve having to shoot barricaded perpetrators behind intermediate barriers, nor have I heard (to date) of any scenarios involving two or more armed civilians engaging a single attacker.



So you mean to say that the overwhelming statistical majority of "stops" in civilian SD scenarios are psychological rather than physiological in nature? Interesting... Could you cite any materials or studies to corroborate that? (To elaborate, I'm not talking about cases where the defender missed completely.)

From wikipedia:

"Psychological

Emotional shock, terror, or surprise can cause a person to faint, surrender, or flee when shot or shot at. Emotional fainting is the likely reason for most "one-shot stops", and not an intrinsic effectiveness quality of any firearm or bullet; there are many documented instances where people have instantly dropped unconscious when the bullet only hit an extremity, or even completely missed. Additionally, the muzzle blast and flash from many firearms are substantial and can cause disorientation, dazzling, and stunning effects. Flashbangs (stun grenades) and other less-lethal "distraction devices" rely exclusively on these effects."
 
You guys who like the 158 gr SWC have made a good choice. I like the 148 gr WC because I can launch it with more velocity. From a snubby, a little extra velocity is a good idea.
 
Originally Posted by Gamecock

The average shot fired in self defense MISSES THE ASSAILANT ENTIRELY.
.............
Your first shot is unlikely to stop the assailant,
.............
You'll be damn lucky just to hit them!


Gamecrock,

Is the above statement from, Personal Experience?

Or sumthing you read sumwhere?



Some of us Ol Hands kinda wondered....:rolleyes:


Su Amigo,
Dave
 
What... is required to make a 38 special wad cutter a viable defense load....I'd appreciate your thoughts...


Regards, Racingsnake
Product placement....ask the members (PD) the distance where most civilian shootings occur...consistent placement and quantity are, imho, the key to a successful negotiation...can you tell I'm in sales....
 
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From wikipedia:

"Psychological

Emotional shock, terror, or surprise can cause a person to faint, surrender, or flee when shot or shot at. Emotional fainting is the likely reason for most "one-shot stops", and not an intrinsic effectiveness quality of any firearm or bullet; there are many documented instances where people have instantly dropped unconscious when the bullet only hit an extremity, or even completely missed. Additionally, the muzzle blast and flash from many firearms are substantial and can cause disorientation, dazzling, and stunning effects. Flashbangs (stun grenades) and other less-lethal "distraction devices" rely exclusively on these effects."


Wikipedia is not a reference. It is just more opinion.
 
"Also, just because Fish's attorney didn't know how to defend the use of a 10MM caliber firearm using HP ammo for SD, that doesn't mean he had an incompetent legal counsel."

So you mean the defendant's counsel WAS competent because he did not know how to defend his client?
 
http://ccjatraining.com/articles/HandgunStoppingPower.pdf

"First let's take a look at some statistics. The FBI, in the Uniform Crime Report
(UCR), tells us that most shootings - about 80% - occur in low or reduced light.
Most shootings involving police officers and civilian concealed carry permit
holders happen at a distance of less than ten feet with average distance at three
feet."

At three feet, you aren't going to be using your sights. Without sights, you aren't aiming. Without aiming, shot placement is a fantasy.
 
http://ccjatraining.com/articles/HandgunStoppingPower.pdf

"First let's take a look at some statistics. The FBI, in the Uniform Crime Report
(UCR), tells us that most shootings - about 80% - occur in low or reduced light.
Most shootings involving police officers and civilian concealed carry permit
holders happen at a distance of less than ten feet with average distance at three
feet."

At three feet, you aren't going to be using your sights. Without sights, you aren't aiming. Without aiming, shot placement is a fantasy.
Might be a fantasy to some, it isn't a fantasy to me.
I was trained (over 40 years ago) by someone who was trained in a method presented in "Shooting to Live" by Capts. Fairbairn and Sykes.
I only just recently was introduced to this manual and recognised every step in the training. Anything but fantasy.
 
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What does all this point shooting and using sight have to do with using wadcutters as a defense load?
 
"First let's take a look at some statistics.

QUOTE]



I've been involved in a difficulty er two in my day...As well as several of my close personal friends.

All of us are still around to bounce the grandkids on our knees and enjoy a good steak....Guess we ain't no statistics. ;)

Trying to predicted what someone will do in a deadly force situation or how well they will preform under those circumstances
is hard to do with a slide rule and a hand full of skewed data/facts on a report somewhere.

As much as I like wadcutters and I do enjoy my time spent hip and or point shooting....

I think I'm gonna go with then sharp shouldered semi-wadcutter from here on out.

Gonna finish this here cup of coffee and go out and fire 3 or 4 hunder rounds to jest
sharpen up my point shootin on the ol cotton rope trick. ;):D

We used to keep a pile of statistics along with a Sear & Roebuck catalog in the out house for laughs and whatknot...:rolleyes:

Load them WC right-side up er back-wards, over a reasonable dose of yer favor powder and have at it, I always say.

And Good Day!


Su Amigo,
Dave
 
I've been involved in a difficulty er two in my day...As well as several of my close personal friends.

All of us are still around to bounce the grandkids on our knees and enjoy a good steak....Guess we ain't no statistics. ;)

Trying to predicted what someone will do in a deadly force situation or how well they will preform under those circumstances
is hard to do with a slide rule and a hand full of skewed data/facts on a report somewhere.

As much as I like wadcutters and I do enjoy my time spent hip and or point shooting....

I think I'm gonna go with then sharp shouldered semi-wadcutter from here on out.

Gonna finish this here cup of coffee and go out and fire 3 or 4 hunder rounds to jest
sharpen up my point shootin on the ol cotton rope trick. ;):D

We used to keep a pile of statistics along with a Sear & Roebuck catalog in the out house for laughs and whatknot...:rolleyes:

Load them WC right-side up er back-wards, over a reasonable dose of yer favor powder and have at it, I always say.

And Good Day!


Su Amigo,
Dave

Well Put!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Depending, the first five or six rounds in my .38's are Buffalo Bore wadcutters. Hell, for that matter, the first six in my N-frame are wadcutters
 
I use this mould to make my own so I can shoot more.

As simple as that.

Can be either hollow point or hollow base.

Load more shoot more.


7.jpg
 
At this point why am I bothering to carry a firearm? If I opt to wallop him with a frying pan, can I aim for the head or would that be pointless too?

That was my thought too after reading that post. Unfortunately when I checked with local law enforcement, I found out they will not issue a concealed fryng pan permit. So I guess I'm stuck my my j-frames.
Since I got old, I have trouble seeing the sights clearly but since my 3-feet-away attacker will be similarly fuzzy I guess that's OK. One thing I'm not gonna do is point-and-shoot, I wouldn't want to miss.
 
What does all this point shooting and using sight have to do with using wadcutters as a defense load?

Since you're gonna miss anyway, it doesn't matter what you shoot. Just load up the loudest, muzzle-flashiest one you can find and hope for the best.
 
Since you're gonna miss anyway, it doesn't matter what you shoot. Just load up the loudest, muzzle-flashiest one you can find and hope for the best.

That's good advice.

Yeah, I know you didn't intend it to be. Blue Dot is an excellent powder to get max flash.
 

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