OP
No offense, but can’t anyone read?
Two inch barrel. 850 fps.
Which MAY be a little on the high end.
Wadcutters For Snubbies
- Thread starter Kanewpadle
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No offense, but can’t anyone read?
Two inch barrel. 850 fps.
Which MAY be a little on the high end.
OP
What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?
Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.
My .o2
Be skeptical all you want.
Like I said, do some research.
Have you researched your current self defense ammo?
Or did you take someone at their word?
What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?
Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.
My .o2
The testing I’ve seen has been in both clear gel and ballistic gelatin. Wadcutters penetrated to within the 12”-18” depth spread the FBI says is necessary, including four-layer denim. That’s the current accepted standard. If you want something more, it’s available.
oberon
Member
A single hit is worth any number of misses.
And it doesn't make a particle of difference what round is used.
A .22 rf, .25acp, .32acp, a .380, or a slow lead.38 sp. wadcutter. through a tender spot (like the BG's face) will get the message across, and may take all the fight out of him. 2 or 3 similar hits may confirm it. Rat/snake shot will slow 'em down quite a bit as well, but it won't make a big bloody wound channel, and won't dispatch 'em permanently.
A defensive shooting ought to be convincing at least, if not deadly.
I load 148gr. hollow base wadcutters for all the .38 specials on the pile. They are not really stout, but they handle well. There was some talk a while back about HBWC loaded backwards to create a cup-point. Like a flyin' ashtray at about 800-900fps.
My loads handle nearly the same as the Federal Nyclad HPs. I have some of those in 125, 148, & 158 gr. I haven't seen any on the shelf around here for ages.
And it doesn't make a particle of difference what round is used.
A .22 rf, .25acp, .32acp, a .380, or a slow lead.38 sp. wadcutter. through a tender spot (like the BG's face) will get the message across, and may take all the fight out of him. 2 or 3 similar hits may confirm it. Rat/snake shot will slow 'em down quite a bit as well, but it won't make a big bloody wound channel, and won't dispatch 'em permanently.
A defensive shooting ought to be convincing at least, if not deadly.
I load 148gr. hollow base wadcutters for all the .38 specials on the pile. They are not really stout, but they handle well. There was some talk a while back about HBWC loaded backwards to create a cup-point. Like a flyin' ashtray at about 800-900fps.
My loads handle nearly the same as the Federal Nyclad HPs. I have some of those in 125, 148, & 158 gr. I haven't seen any on the shelf around here for ages.
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I thought the idea was for folks that didn't like the recoil, or what used to be a cheaper load. That sounds like a pretty stiff load. Why do you feel it's superior to something like a 135-gr Gold Dot +P? Or even the FBI load?
I already said that I've been using wadcutters for 51 years. That's many thousands of rounds on the job and off as well as academy and FA instructors school. Teaching in a police academy and developing combat courses of fire with other instructors looking to push the training envelope develops a intimate familiarity with the load.
I suspect that many of the wadcutter fans are geezers who have shot many cases of the load more than the issued duty round. Thus that old familiarity of J frame/ K frame and 148gr. wadcutter. Is it the best self defense load available now? No not by any realistic standard. But it was competitive fifty years ago especially in a snubbie.
This is what some of us grew up with. This is what we shoot best. This is what we KNOW will hit center mass, again and again. And the revolver dependability factor is ingrained into our very being.
I understand how the young guys will feel that way about striker fired wonder nines in the future. It's what you grow up with.
I notice how the very limited display of revolvers only seem to attract the senior citizen type at the LGS. that's OK too.
I suspect that many of the wadcutter fans are geezers who have shot many cases of the load more than the issued duty round. Thus that old familiarity of J frame/ K frame and 148gr. wadcutter. Is it the best self defense load available now? No not by any realistic standard. But it was competitive fifty years ago especially in a snubbie.
This is what some of us grew up with. This is what we shoot best. This is what we KNOW will hit center mass, again and again. And the revolver dependability factor is ingrained into our very being.
I understand how the young guys will feel that way about striker fired wonder nines in the future. It's what you grow up with.
I notice how the very limited display of revolvers only seem to attract the senior citizen type at the LGS. that's OK too.
And skills too. If you are good with this tool you are drawn to it. My friend Mike is so good with a model 36 that he can knock a crow off a barbed wire fence at 40 yards. He can shoot a coon out of a tree. He owns about fifteen various j frames.
OP
Went to the range yesterday.
The results were exactly as I thought they would be.
From a rest at 5, 7, and 15 yards, the load shot to the sights.
Offhand was the same result.
Since I’m shooting a Kimber K6, recoil was not a factor.
Nice die cut holes in the targets.
I’m confident this load will work. As that’s all that counts.
The results were exactly as I thought they would be.
From a rest at 5, 7, and 15 yards, the load shot to the sights.
Offhand was the same result.
Since I’m shooting a Kimber K6, recoil was not a factor.
Nice die cut holes in the targets.
I’m confident this load will work. As that’s all that counts.
I was wondering when someone would bring up how wonderful the 148 gr. HBWC loaded backwards is.
Years back a good friend of mine was with the local mid sized town PD. He was SWAT and firearms instructor among his other duty's.
We were shooting a PPC course at the club and his normal "space gun" had a problem. I and a couple others offered him our guns as we had already shot. He said thanks but no thanks.
He went and fired the course with his model 60. Made a believer of quite a few people. The course of fire was 60 rounds and out to 50 yards!
OBTW he also was for years a high ranked holder on the governors 20 shooting list and and shot registered matches as a high master!
What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?
Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.
My .o2
Well sir,
Jim Cirillo of the Stake Out Unit of the NYPD was a great believer in the full charge wadcutter as being more effective than anything else and they put a lot of armed criminals in the dirt. last I checked, NY was cold in the winter. I will take the man with real life experience over gel tests and internet speculations any day.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
I was wondering when someone would bring up how wonderful the 148 gr. HBWC loaded backwards is.
Me too! A lot of Gun Writers have been writing about it for 60 years.
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
I think as we age we need to adjust especially for your EDC.
Use your favorite .38 Special load but eventually if it becomes hard to manage its time for a Match Wadcutter.
Of course some are better off with a .22 or a .32 revolver.
Just from when I was a cop a two inch is just a BUG. While some Detectives carried a snubnose a few preferred the four inch.
Use your favorite .38 Special load but eventually if it becomes hard to manage its time for a Match Wadcutter.
Of course some are better off with a .22 or a .32 revolver.
Just from when I was a cop a two inch is just a BUG. While some Detectives carried a snubnose a few preferred the four inch.
sigp220.45
US Veteran
Just from when I was a cop a two inch is just a BUG. While some Detectives carried a snubnose a few preferred the four inch.
And then there is this old school LA homicide dick.
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What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?
Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.
My .o2
A winter coat isn't going to stop any bullets. I wonder where this got started. I would be glad to see it go away.
Any pellet gun will sail straight through a winter parka.
Early seventies I did load HBWC upside down. So did a couple of other guys on our 200 man department. Strictly for BUG you understand. Anyway nobody was ever shot with this load that I know of. Probably would have been problematic as even nailpolish was frowned upon.
As for the winter coat I saw one guy shot in a driveby a good 100 feet away with a .25 ACP hit his very heavy wool coat and a vest. Heart shot. He was very dead. That same winter another guy gut shot with a .45 ACP hardball. It hurt but he lived to talk about it. You never know. Placement is king.
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As for the winter coat I saw one guy shot in a driveby a good 100 feet away with a .25 ACP hit his very heavy wool coat and a vest. Heart shot. He was very dead. That same winter another guy gut shot with a .45 ACP hardball. It hurt but he lived to talk about it. You never know. Placement is king.
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Autonomous
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I was wondering when someone would bring up how wonderful the 148 gr. HBWC loaded backwards is.
All the times I see this load brought up I've never seen the reduction in case volume or increased COL discussed.
You think some guys are playing with higher pressures than they think?
So which one of your two statements aren't correct then?
For the record, I read exceptionally well.
Skepticism is what keeps a lot of folks alive.
But just throwing out something random as all get-out such as "penetration tests" without giving what KIND of tests they were justly deserves this:
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