Wadcutters For Snubbies

[Kanewpadle]

We've discussed wadcutters here before. Many of you advocate their use.

So I did some research. It turns out that many of those "in the know" agree.

Shot placement and penetration should be first and foremost. Expansion a distant second.

After hundreds if not thousands of autopsy studies, wadcutters simply work.

So I made the switch to Underwood 150gr wadcutter. 1000 fps out of a four inch barrel. Drops down to around 850 fps out of a two inch barrel.

Will do some testing today at the range.

But don't take my word for it. Research the following.

Dr. Martin Fackler
Dr. Gary Roberts (DocGKR)
Chuck Haggard
And several others

YouTube. "Primary and Secondary".

 

[ISCS Yoda]

I have heard this many times. I'll look forward to your testing.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I have heard this many times. I'll look forward to your testing.

Nothing fancy for testing. Just want to make they are accurate.

 

[JFthunder]

And for reloads…

Agree totally on the carry load for my M38… all day, every day. But for reloads with a speed loader or strip I find the Semi wad cutter give a noticeable edge in speed because the just line up that little bit easier.

 

[1sailor]

They seemed to do pretty well in the Lucky Gunner testing also. Penetration being almost perfect even out of a 2" barrel.

 

[Rudi]

Paul did a video about this. They did well on the meat target.

 

[Narragansett]

I used to shoot mid range wadcutters. Now I don't care what gun 38 or 357, I use SWC.

 

[Valmet]

Why I prefer Double Tap 148-gr WCs in my 37-1 Airweight.

 

[Model19man]

The load for my Model 37 -

 

[NYlakesider]

I used to shoot mid range wadcutters. Now I don't care what gun 38 or 357, I use SWC.

I shot many pounds of SWC back when I was doing a lot of PPC shooting.

As reloading was from speed loader, by going to SWC over WCs it gave me a bit more controlled loading speed. That was both for my model 28 6'' and "off duty class gun', a Model 15 2''.

No I was not a LEO, off duty was a fun class with barrel restrictions to 2 1/2'' Gave up looking for a 19 that had that longer by 1/2 barrel, back then many S&Ws revolvers were hard to find!

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

Been using 148gr. wadcutters for J frame carry 51 years. When I carry extra rounds its in a speed strip with 158gr. SWC.

The wadcutters are very accurate and make easy follow up shots. And I've never had a "jam" in my J frames. That alone inspires confidence.

 

[Pointblank2U]

I totally agree about wadcutters, but I don't think you need 1000 fps. Regular old wadcutters will penetrate plenty enough, won't recoil or cost as much.

 

[BE Mike]

It's all theory isn't it? No handgun, even the .44 Remington Magnum, is a 100% one-stop-shot affair.

 

[rockquarry]

It's all theory isn't it? No handgun, even the .44 Remington Magnum, is a 100% one-stop-shot affair.

You're right, but many are obsessed with the topic. It won't go away even if it needs to.

 

[bobsguns]

So I made the switch to Underwood 150gr wadcutter. 1000 fps out of a four inch barrel.

Surely you agree that those numbers aren't your typical wadcutter loading?

 

[pasound]

Not a theory. A follow-up center mass shot with a 38 wadcutter, even in a short barrel, can be more successful than a 44 twisting in your hand, and missing the target.

 

[bobsguns]

They seemed to do pretty well in the Lucky Gunner testing also. Penetration being almost perfect even out of a 2" barrel.

What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?

Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.

My .o2

 

[bobsguns]

Not a theory. A follow-up center mass shot with a 38 wadcutter, even in a short barrel, can be more successful than a 44 twisting in your hand, and missing the target.

Are you speaking of .44magnum or .44spl? Makes a difference, don'tcha think????

 

[pasound]

I own both 44 versions. Actually three. I still would rather have a round I know I can hit POA than a bigger one that might not. I'm old. My hands shake.

 

[Kanewpadle]

It's all theory isn't it? No handgun, even the .44 Remington Magnum, is a 100% one-stop-shot affair.

Nobody said anything about a one shot stop.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Surely you agree that those numbers aren't your typical wadcutter loading?

No offense, but can't anyone read?

Two inch barrel. 850 fps.

Which MAY be a little on the high end.

 

[Kanewpadle]

What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?

Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.

My .o2

Be skeptical all you want.

Like I said, do some research.

Have you researched your current self defense ammo?

Or did you take someone at their word?

 

[Chuck Edwards]

What was the penetration of? Pine boards? Ballistic gel? A 400lb fat tub of lard who decides he wants your car/money/valuables?

Based on the mug shots I see, a large % of thugs aren't missing any meals. Throw a heavy winter coat into that mix & then color me skeptical.

My .o2

The testing I've seen has been in both clear gel and ballistic gelatin. Wadcutters penetrated to within the 12"-18" depth spread the FBI says is necessary, including four-layer denim. That's the current accepted standard. If you want something more, it's available.

 

[oberon]

A single hit is worth any number of misses.
And it doesn't make a particle of difference what round is used.
A .22 rf, .25acp, .32acp, a .380, or a slow lead.38 sp. wadcutter. through a tender spot (like the BG's face) will get the message across, and may take all the fight out of him. 2 or 3 similar hits may confirm it. Rat/snake shot will slow 'em down quite a bit as well, but it won't make a big bloody wound channel, and won't dispatch 'em permanently.
A defensive shooting ought to be convincing at least, if not deadly.
I load 148gr. hollow base wadcutters for all the .38 specials on the pile. They are not really stout, but they handle well. There was some talk a while back about HBWC loaded backwards to create a cup-point. Like a flyin' ashtray at about 800-900fps.
My loads handle nearly the same as the Federal Nyclad HPs. I have some of those in 125, 148, & 158 gr. I haven't seen any on the shelf around here for ages.

 

[petepeterson]

I totally agree about wadcutters, but I don't think you need 1000 fps. Regular old wadcutters will penetrate plenty enough, won't recoil or cost as much.

I thought the idea was for folks that didn't like the recoil, or what used to be a cheaper load. That sounds like a pretty stiff load. Why do you feel it's superior to something like a 135-gr Gold Dot +P? Or even the FBI load?

 

[Sgt. Buzzard]

I already said that I've been using wadcutters for 51 years. That's many thousands of rounds on the job and off as well as academy and FA instructors school. Teaching in a police academy and developing combat courses of fire with other instructors looking to push the training envelope develops a intimate familiarity with the load.

I suspect that many of the wadcutter fans are geezers who have shot many cases of the load more than the issued duty round. Thus that old familiarity of J frame/ K frame and 148gr. wadcutter. Is it the best self defense load available now? No not by any realistic standard. But it was competitive fifty years ago especially in a snubbie.

This is what some of us grew up with. This is what we shoot best. This is what we KNOW will hit center mass, again and again. And the revolver dependability factor is ingrained into our very being.

I understand how the young guys will feel that way about striker fired wonder nines in the future. It's what you grow up with.

I notice how the very limited display of revolvers only seem to attract the senior citizen type at the LGS. that's OK too.

 

[Brian Parrish]

And skills too. If you are good with this tool you are drawn to it. My friend Mike is so good with a model 36 that he can knock a crow off a barbed wire fence at 40 yards. He can shoot a coon out of a tree. He owns about fifteen various j frames.

 

[Kanewpadle]

Went to the range yesterday.

The results were exactly as I thought they would be.

From a rest at 5, 7, and 15 yards, the load shot to the sights.

Offhand was the same result.

Since I'm shooting a Kimber K6, recoil was not a factor.

Nice die cut holes in the targets.

I'm confident this load will work. As that's all that counts.

 

[BE Mike]

A single hit is worth any number of misses.
And it doesn't make a particle of difference what round is used.
A .22 rf, .25acp, .32acp, a .380, or a slow lead.38 sp. wadcutter. through a tender spot (like the BG's face) will get the message across, and may take all the fight out of him. 2 or 3 similar hits may confirm it. Rat/snake shot will slow 'em down quite a bit as well, but it won't make a big bloody wound channel, and won't dispatch 'em permanently.
A defensive shooting ought to be convincing at least, if not deadly.
I load 148gr. hollow base wadcutters for all the .38 specials on the pile. They are not really stout, but they handle well. There was some talk a while back about HBWC loaded backwards to create a cup-point. Like a flyin' ashtray at about 800-900fps.
My loads handle nearly the same as the Federal Nyclad HPs. I have some of those in 125, 148, & 158 gr. I haven't seen any on the shelf around here for ages.

I was wondering when someone would bring up how wonderful the 148 gr. HBWC loaded backwards is.

 

[NYlakesider]

And skills too. If you are good with this tool you are drawn to it. My friend Mike is so good with a model 36 that he can knock a crow off a barbed wire fence at 40 yards. He can shoot a coon out of a tree. He owns about fifteen various j frames.

Years back a good friend of mine was with the local mid sized town PD. He was SWAT and firearms instructor among his other duty's.

We were shooting a PPC course at the club and his normal "space gun" had a problem. I and a couple others offered him our guns as we had already shot. He said thanks but no thanks.

He went and fired the course with his model 60. Made a believer of quite a few people. The course of fire was 60 rounds and out to 50 yards!

OBTW he also was for years a high ranked holder on the governors 20 shooting list and and shot registered matches as a high master!