Wait for M1903 or buy this Enfield?

[SF VET]

Took my rebarrelled MKIII out again, determined to figure out why it seemed to be impacting way low at 50 yards off a bench. But before I went I put a dab of white paint on the front post and also put a much smaller Sight & See black bull on the target cardboard, and sure enough my newly barrelled 303 did indeed put its rounds just about two inches high from my POI. My difficulty was in finding the front black post on a big black bull. The rifle shoots a bit higher at 100 yards, so perhaps the .15 front blade is pretty close for what the British considered a battle sight zero. I may put on a .30 front blade if I get around to it. Also realized my Jungle Carbine will chamber any round in the mag, while the new barrel on my MkIII won't chamber any round that has the slightest case a bit too long.

I only neck size my 303, and found on my shot S&B spent cases, my dies don't "bump" the shoulder quite enough. They do chamber in my MK5 fine. It is a pain to keep my reloads separate for my two Enfields, but I may just have to do that, and keep the spent cases separate too. A rubber slip-on but pad sure makes my Enfields much less painful to shoot.

I didn't find any POI change between 150 and 178 gr loads, mine or new PPU or new S&B. I much prefer the rear "peep" on the MK5, and wish i had also picked up a nice MK4 back when were cheap mostly for the rear "peep" it has.

Yesterday I zeroed my Python with the Wilson Gold Dot front sight on my Legion 229 and am am going back today with my 229 with the Sig optic, my first, and am finding I shoot most accurately and fastest with my first DOT sight than any other standard type sight. All that dry firing from a holster with my new 229 seems to be helping a lot.

Life is good in SC, esp with the cooler weather.

All the best, SF VET

 

[Faulkner]

That looks like one of the mummy wrapped UF55 serialed No4 MkIIs. They came unused out of Royal Air Force stores. Mine's still in the wrap. Some tried to pass them off as Irish, but I'm 95% sure that all the UF55 rifles stayed in the UK. I have another MkII that came from an earlier block that definitely went to Ireland, and it has clearly seen some use.

The story behind the "Irish find" NO4 MKII's seems to be as mysterious as the disappearance of Emilia Earhart. I have read several different accounts, but most agree they never went to Ireland.

As I understand it, the Irish find rifles were intended to be shipped to Ireland but never were due to the instability in that time period in the relationship between Ireland and the mother country, so the British stored them in a Royal Air Force armory/warehouse until things settled down. By the time things did settle down and the rifles were "found" in storage decades later they were no longer standard issue.

I bought mine in 1992 and it was still in the mummy wrap. Took me days to get it unwrapped and get all the cosmoline removed. Mine came with a matching blade bayonet in the wrap.

 

[Pisgah]

If what you want is a representative of the most common US service rifle in WW1, find a US 1917 Enfield. 1917's issued outnumbered 1903's by a factor of 3 to 1...

 

[LVSteve]

Took my rebarrelled MKIII out again, determined to figure out why it seemed to be impacting way low at 50 yards off a bench. But before I went I put a dab of white paint on the front post and also put a much smaller Sight & See black bull on the target cardboard, and sure enough my newly barrelled 303 did indeed put its rounds just about two inches high from my POI. My difficulty was in finding the front black post on a big black bull. The rifle shoots a bit higher at 100 yards, so perhaps the .15 front blade is pretty close for what the British considered a battle sight zero. I may put on a .30 front blade if I get around to it. Also realized my Jungle Carbine will chamber any round in the mag, while the new barrel on my MkIII won't chamber any round that has the slightest case a bit too long.

I only neck size my 303, and found on my shot S&B spent cases, my dies don't "bump" the shoulder quite enough. They do chamber in my MK5 fine. It is a pain to keep my reloads separate for my two Enfields, but I may just have to do that, and keep the spent cases separate too. A rubber slip-on but pad sure makes my Enfields much less painful to shoot.

I didn't find any POI change between 150 and 178 gr loads, mine or new PPU or new S&B. I much prefer the rear "peep" on the MK5, and wish i had also picked up a nice MK4 back when were cheap mostly for the rear "peep" it has.

I'm a believer in measuring groups at 100 yards, but zeroing for at least 300 yards with a fullsize cartridge. This has got me a few "harrumphs" at the range. My rifle, my ammo, so...

Over on the Enfield forum at gunboards you will find that separating rounds from different Enfields for reloading is SOP. Indeed, it is also suggested that for the first firing an O-ring be used to seat the cartridge firmly against the bolthead and let the shoulders fire-form to that particular rifle. This reduces stretching and thinning at the bottom of the case, and basic neck sizing should be sufficient from then on.

As for the No.5 having a larger chamber, that does not surprise me at all. Assuming that both your Enfields have matching bolts, the No.5 carbines were built towards the end of WWII when Enfield tooling was getting tired. There is also the question of where you No.5 was built. The Fazakerley factory was not exactly a paragon of quality, and even suffered industrial action during wartime. I suspect the BSA built guns are a bit nicer.

 

[DWalt]

The only .303 rifle I owned was a Savage-made No. 4 Mk 1*, now long gone. I believe different bolthead lengths were available to adjust headspace, but I never tried that. I reloaded for it using 7.7 Jap dies. I had quite a bit of Winchester-made .303 ammunition from WWII, and it was Boxer-primed. I still have a 50 round sealed box of Kynoch .303 FMJ cartridges with a 1931 date stamp. But there is no indication on the box that they were military. Until recently I had a box of New Zealand .303 hunting loads which appear to have once been Canadian military rounds with original FMJ bullets pulled and replaced with soft point bullets.

 

[LVSteve]

The only .303 rifle I owned was a Savage-made No. 4 Mk 1*, now long gone. I believe different bolthead lengths were available to adjust headspace, but I never tried that. I reloaded for it using 7.7 Jap dies. I had quite a bit of Winchester-made .303 ammunition from WWII, and it was Boxer-primed. I still have a 50 round sealed box of Kynoch .303 FMJ cartridges with a 1931 date stamp. But there is no indication on the box that they were military. Until recently I had a box of New Zealand .303 hunting loads which appear to have once been Canadian military rounds with original FMJ bullets pulled and replaced with soft point bullets.

The bolt heads for the No.4 were numbered 0, 1, 2, or 3, depending on length. They were chosen not only to get the headspace correct but also to ensure that they did not over-rotate. It seems that the thread cutting consistency on the bolts and bolt heads could have been more consistent.

On the No.1 rifle I believe that there was a similar process, but the armorer or factory worker had to root through a box of unnumbered bolts of unknown lengths to find one that met the headspace requirements.

 

[Greyman50]

Before getting " arthur" in my shoulders I had every US battle rifle including a Westinghouse Mosin. All my 03's shot very well and I used the small peep hole below the " Christmas Tree" on the flip up sight. Try it. They all found good homes.

 

[DWalt]

Before getting " arthur" in my shoulders I had every US battle rifle including a Westinghouse Mosin. All my 03's shot very well and I used the small peep hole below the " Christmas Tree" on the flip up sight. Try it. They all found good homes.

Those M-N rifles were issued to U.S. troops in the little-known invasion of Siberia in the closing days of WWI that few today have even heard of, the so-called Polar Bear Invasion of Russia to aid the White Russians against the Bolsheviks. The Forgotten Story of the American Troops Who Got Caught Up in the Russian Civil War | History|
Smithsonian Magazine

 

[Muley Gil]

Those M-N rifles were issued to U.S. troops in the little-known invasion of Siberia in the closing days of WWI that few today have even heard of, the so-called Polar Bear Invasion of Russia to aid the White Russians against the Bolsheviks. The Forgotten Story of the American Troops Who Got Caught Up in the Russian Civil War | History|
Smithsonian Magazine

My granddaddy and one of his brothers joined the Army in 1919. My Pop-Pop died when I was 4, but Uncle Clay lived into his 80s. One afternoon, I drove down to Montgomery AL from Auburn to visit with him and my Aunt Minnie Neal.

After a wonderful Southern meal, Uncle Clay told me that my Pop-Pop was the lucky one, as he had been sent to Maryland after basic training, while he had been sent to Siberia. Uncle Clay told me that "This poor old South Alabama boy about froze to death!"

Unfortunately, I never followed up and found out more about his service over there.

 

[ky wonder]

I'm 69 this year have owned numerous guns throught the years one of my all time favorite rifles was a eddiestone 1917enfield, much better rifle than an 03 in my book
It was a mismatch trade fodder gun but it shot like a dream
Soda can bottoms at 200 yds with iron sights were very common
I won several of our clubs service rifle matches with it
And it is truly one of the guns I wish I had hung on to

 

[SGT ROCK 11B]

The SMLE is in .303 British caliber.

I had both .303 and .30/06 and reloaded for both of them. Stick to .30/06.

Most M1903 I see now have been "sportized" for hunting.

 

[Greyman50]

Those M-N rifles were issued to U.S. troops in the little-known invasion of Siberia in the closing days of WWI that few today have even heard of, the so-called Polar Bear Invasion of Russia to aid the White Russians against the Bolsheviks. The Forgotten Story of the American Troops Who Got Caught Up in the Russian Civil War | History|
Smithsonian Magazine

Had a great Uncle that was a Polar Bear. Saw his " mementos" a few times as a kid, 1911, uniform with the patch, overcoat, field gear and his painted helmet. Sadly he passed when I was a teen and his son was a low life drunk that pawned everything. I'd give just about anything to get his helmet and 1911.
BTW, one year at Jamestown MTA we did North Russia, the reason we all bought Westinghouse MN's…

 

[SF VET]

Grayman, I have read the accounts of how the bolshevik's were able to fight and win against their disjointed enemies. If the "Whites" could have come together with a common leader, the modern world would be very different.

I know how you feel when family heirlooms are lost to a family. About 25 years ago, whemnmy mom and dad, who was a 33 year Naval Aviator were moving from NE to be closer to us in SC, a man walked up when the van was there, and told my mom he was collecting militaria for his soon-to-be established military museum, and asked her if they could contribute any items. She promptly demanded my dad give away his early '50s Pilot helmet, his knee plotting board which he had used for thousands of air hours, and his leather pilot's gloves and other of his items.

Of course this man had no intention of establishing any museum, he just stopped at homes of older veteran age couples, and asked for family military items for his own use or his resale.

I still smolder in anger when I recall playing with his flight helmet, and how my mom was tricked into giving all most all of my dad's history away. By the way, he and his brother were on the Navy's first carrier, the USS Langley, later sunk with heavy loss of life in the Java Sea.

Probably even a worse feeling when it was all lost because of a family member.

SF VET