Walking The Dogs....

This morning my 9-year-old, 15-pound rat terrier was taking me on his daily morning patrol of the perimeter--I live in an apartment complex for seniors that is surrounded by large grassy areas and big, fine oak and maple trees, and Moose loves to scout all the way around it a couple of times a day.

There is a young family renting a house on one corner of the property (same owners as the apartments), and they have two large dogs in a tiny fenced yard from which they can escape. One is a young male hound mix, probably fifty pounds. Used to be an amiable pup. The other, which joined the family later and is very aggressive toward small dogs, is a big female Lab-pit cross. poorly socialized, which is pure poison and is teaching the pup bad habits. Usually these animals aren't out when I walk Moose, but this morning they were and I didn't know it in time. I veered away to a park-like area on our property where my dog likes to make his AM deposits.

No joy--the hound (thank God it wasn't the female Lab-pit mix) shot out under the fence, hit Moose at a run, knocked him on his back, and was full-length on top of him and looking as if he was going for the throat.

I walk with an aluminum cane, and began belting the hound with it. Until the third lick, a solid whack on the head, it wasn't making an impression; but with the head blow the pup rolled on his back in a submissive position, then headed for home as his master came after him. I headed away with Moose, and the kid called after me, "Sorry about that, Mike." Over my shoulder I answered, "You need to be, that's not acceptable." I might have been more receptive of his apology if this had been the first time there had been a problem, but it's not. I've asked the kid to fix the fence and he says the owners won't let him do it. Yeah, right. The female dog viciously attacked a neighbor's little Pomeranian a few weeks ago, then came after Moose and me as we stepped inside, and tried to get into my apartment. On that occasion I told the owner of the mutt that if she had gotten into my place I'd have shot her.

If the hound hadn't given up when he did I'd have shot him, but in the melee Moose would have been in danger. I hate to hit a dog, and would feel terrible about killing someone's pet, but I will protect my little guy.

The family has apparently been told they have to move because of the dogs, but the young man thinks we shouldn't walk our dogs on our property when his are out. After this fracas this morning, when I was almost home the kid came after me, furious, saying, "You know what happens when you walk your dog past my fence!" I told him to fix the fence, got the usual answer, reminded him that the law here says the owner must control his dogs, and walked away. Then I talked to the manager and had her leave a message for one of the apartment owners to call me.

I'd hate to call animal control, with the likelihood that the hound pup would be put down. I think he could be salvaged if they got him away from the Lab-pit. But if they aren't out of here soon, and if there is any recurrence of this, I won't hesitate. I'd rather do that, given a choice, than shoot another man's dog and agitate my elderly neighbors.
 
I am constantly amazed by people who fail to grasp the seriousness of a situation like the one you describe. Not only from a legal standpoint, but the amount of financial exposure that they are leaving themselves open to. Just boggles my mind.
 
I have thought of this kind of scenario many times, as I own and regularly walk two Golden Retrievers at the same time, with leashes in both hands.

Sometimes dogs come out of their yards at us, usually peacefully but other times I am not sure and just hope for the best -- which usually happens, as my dogs are good natured and just want to sniff, play, etc.

I usually don't carry (I have a CHL) but sometimes I do, and I've thought of doing so all the time when I walk the dogs. I don't want to shoot anyone's pet, though, and in most circumstances I'm sure some OC spray or a sharp rap on the noggin with a walking stick would solve any problem I might encounter in the neighborhood.

I need to get some OC. I also need to remember that if my dogs are attacked while on the leash, I need to turn loose of the leash so they can have a chance to protect themselves to whatever degree they are able. Plus, I need to have hands free to do what I need to do.

Some here will disagree, and say I need to be ready to shoot, the same as I would be if a wild animal was attacking. (Which conceivably could happen, as I live in a semi-rural area, and coyotes and, I'm sure, wild dogs could be in the vicinity.)

I just don't want to kill someone's pet. I don't want my dogs injured either, but things would have to be pretty darn bad before I could go all in and shoot to protect them. I would beat the snot out of an attacking animal, though, if I had to.

"Hoping" for the best is not a good idea, and being unwilling to shot someones "uncontrolled" animal is an even worse one.

Beating the snot out of an attacking animal is NOT as easy as you might think. They have the speed advantage, leverage...and teeth!

You might want to re-think your strategy. :cool:
 
Be advised that OC, Pepper Spray, Mace, etc. is not always effective. Years ago I used some OC on an attacking Rottweiler and it had no effect on him whatsoever. I was walking with a cane at the time, and after the OC failure, a few healthy swings at him (no, I didn't hit the dog), drove him off. If possible, I'd prefer a non-lethal approach over a lethal one, but only if the situation allows.

Regards,

Dave

While working for a utility company I was carrying the "spray" they issued which was considered to be the best. I found out how useless it was when a Rottweilder appeared from around a fence unexpectedly. It tried to attack but was hampered by the thick brush it had to plow through. I sprayed the dog directly, while retreating to my car. THE SPRAY DID NOTHING! Thank God for the "high voltage hot stick I was also carrying.

My conclusion? If someones dog is important to them then they better keep it under control. I will not hesitate for a second to put the dog down, because I have no more desire to be bitten by a dog than to be attacked by a mugger !!! :mad:
 
I told the man to leave this alone, and that we both needed to just move on. He started asking if I had a gun again, and I my answer to him was: "If I do, and if I'm as bad and crazy as your wife has convinced you that I am, then why did she send you to confront me? Are you sure she really loves you?" That really surprised him, and he suddenly decided that a tactical retreat was now in order.

That's just PERFECT! I love it. :D
 
I had an incident a couple years ago when a large Rottweiler jumped an inadequate fence and attacked me and my dog. In the process of trying to protect my dog and keep him off me, I kicked him and he bit my leg. The kick did stun him briefly and I used the opportunity to draw my 640-1 loaded with 125gr JHPs. I pointed at him and yelled at him to back off. He appeared to consider the situation and decided to run back to his yard...By this time, there were witnesses around. I holstered my revolver and immediately called 911 and advised the dispatcher of what just took place. She sent a Animal Control officer. She got the facts, including my use of the gun. She documented my injuries. I pointed out where the dog lived...She went and found the owner and took the dog for quarantine. The owners surrendered him. They came to my house and appologised a bit later...I think the dog was destroyed. I felt bad for the dog but I was glad it was me he attacked and not one of the young mothers with babies or kids aound here...When I see owners letting their dogs run off leash, I consider the owner to be stupid...I was also glad I had a .357Mag and not some mousegun.
 
I 've saw her in my yard 100+ feet from the road letting her dog do his duty. My wife approached her and told her that THIS IS PRIVATE PROPERTY so stay out . She denied that her dog did it's duty but we saw it happen.

Return it to her VIA slingshot.
 
In northern Wisconsin they use dogs to hunt bears. The dog packs are outfitted with GPS and radio equipment, and then set loose. The dogs chase down the bear and tree it. The 'hunter' sits in his truck and watches the computer. When it looks like the dogs have treed a bear, he goes to collect it.

The 'hunters' feel they are entitled to let packs of dogs run loose everyplace, including private property. They say, 'Dont worry, the dogs are trained to not attack people'. This about wins the prize for irresponsible behavior.
 
I was also glad I had a .357Mag and not some mousegun.

I don't have any experience shooting dogs, but I have heard that they are *much* harder to kill than one would expect, especially the more sturdy breeds such as a rottweiler. And a short barreled 357 is not really a powerhouse.

How effective would such a gun be in this case?

We had an incident a few years ago, where a K-9 officer who lives in the neighborhood had his dog get out of the yard. It proceeded to terrorize the neighborhood until someone shot it with a 45acp handgun. The dog survived and recovered.
 
I had an incident a couple years ago when a large Rottweiler jumped an inadequate fence and attacked me and my dog. In the process of trying to protect my dog and keep him off me, I kicked him and he bit my leg. The kick did stun him briefly and I used the opportunity to draw my 640-1 loaded with 125gr JHPs. I pointed at him and yelled at him to back off. He appeared to consider the situation and decided to run back to his yard...By this time, there were witnesses around. I holstered my revolver and immediately called 911 and advised the dispatcher of what just took place. She sent a Animal Control officer. She got the facts, including my use of the gun. She documented my injuries. I pointed out where the dog lived...She went and found the owner and took the dog for quarantine. The owners surrendered him. They came to my house and appologised a bit later...I think the dog was destroyed. I felt bad for the dog but I was glad it was me he attacked and not one of the young mothers with babies or kids aound here...When I see owners letting their dogs run off leash, I consider the owner to be stupid...I was also glad I had a .357Mag and not some mousegun.

Glad for the outcome, but as I read the story...what difference do you think the caliber of gun made? I don't see any.
 
In northern Wisconsin they use dogs to hunt bears. The dog packs are outfitted with GPS and radio equipment, and then set loose. The dogs chase down the bear and tree it. The 'hunter' sits in his truck and watches the computer. When it looks like the dogs have treed a bear, he goes to collect it.

The 'hunters' feel they are entitled to let packs of dogs run loose everyplace, including private property. They say, 'Dont worry, the dogs are trained to not attack people'. This about wins the prize for irresponsible behavior.

Any incidents of the dogs attacking a concealed or open carrier?
If so, how did it turn out?
 
I don't have any experience shooting dogs, but I have heard that they are *much* harder to kill than one would expect, especially the more sturdy breeds such as a rottweiler. And a short barreled 357 is not really a powerhouse.

How effective would such a gun be in this case?

We had an incident a few years ago, where a K-9 officer who lives in the neighborhood had his dog get out of the yard. It proceeded to terrorize the neighborhood until someone shot it with a 45acp handgun. The dog survived and recovered.

WHERE did "someone" shoot it? ...in the paw? ...leg?
Just shooting the dog doesn't kill it, even with .45acp.:cool:
 
Any incidents of the dogs attacking a concealed or open carrier?
If so, how did it turn out?

I don't know of any. They only do this in very rural areas. My parents have a summer cottage on grounds leased from a club. The dogs have been seen running on club property. The hunters have been told to keep their dogs out, I'm not sure how much they have listened.
 
I think a .357 magnum has a better chance of stopping an attack from a large, vicious dog than a .32, etc...The same with a human attacker. I have seen several dogs that had been shot with various guns and a number of humans. The 2.5" barrel isn't optimum but a 125gr .357 mag is pretty effective on humans, even from shorter barrels. I've seen a number of people shot multiple times with various .32's and .22's that were pretty capable of killing the shooter. I saw a case where a guy shot another five times with a .25 and the guy that was shot proceeded to beat the shooter to death with a pool cue. The guy with the holes in his gut and chest survived to go on trial...I know the dog had no clue about the caliber but perhaps reacted to the threat and voice cues...I will state again that I was glad I wasn't armed with a .32/25/22.
 
I do a great deal of walking with Pugsters. At night it's around the neighborhood and we've never had much of a problem. During the day we go to the park where there's a 3mi walkway through the woods. A couple times we've come across a pack of three dogs on the loose. I'm here to tell ya it'll get yer heart rate up. It's times like those I think the open carry guys walking around with long guns have the right idea.
 
Back during the crack wars of the late eighties I was working SWAT. We'd take down the door for the Vice guys to do the Search Warrant. All those crack dealers had pits, or rotties, or Akitas, or Dobies. We took it as an article of faith that we wouldn't even try a 9mm on a pit. I've seen them absorb a 00 buck and keep coming.
 
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