want to convert DAO Model 64-5 to single/double action

[W.E.G.]

I want to convert a Smith and Wesson DAO Model 64-5 to single/double action.

I just acquired a double-action-only Model 64-5 with the bobbed hammer.

Am I correct that the "standard" configuration of the Model 64 was issued with single-action AND double-action capability?

Should I just order a hammer assembly from Smith and Wesson?

Do I need to order anything other than just the hammer assembly?

Is part #049070000 correct for this application?
(Parts list at http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore/SmWesson/upload/other/RevPartsList_Retail.pdf )

What does "OBS" mean?

.
.

 

[john traveler]

Replacing the modified hammer and trigger assemblies should be enough to convert back to SA/DA in your M65.

The problem though, is FINDING the parts you need.

That "OBS" means "obsolete", meaning S&W no longers manufactures guns using those parts.

 

[scha]

I agree that OBS means obsolete but I thought that if an item appears on the current S&W Parts list then that part is still available from the factory. A call would confirm, but I think the factory still has all the parts needed to convert a 64-5 to SA/DA.

Steve

 

[W.E.G.]

Here's a pic of the innards.

Can anybody eyeball this thing and tell me which parts need to be replaced?

 

[W.E.G.]

another pic... with the trigger pulled to the rear to get another viewing angle on the hammer and trigger notches

 

[handgunner356]

It appears that the single action notch is gone on the hammer. Have you tried to pull the hammer back to see if it will set? They sometimes just ground off the spur. There are a couple of places that might have the hammer, Numrich gun parts in N.Y. and Jack First in S.D.

 

[W.E.G.]

I did try the hammer.

It won't stay "cocked" in single action position.

The hammer looks like a factory item.
All exposed surfaces have a uniform finish, and show no sign of modifications.

I especially want to know whether I'm going to need a new trigger and/or other parts IN ADDITION TO the single-action-capable hammer.

 

[robertrwalsh]

If you are lucky all you will need is the hammer. It does not look to me like the trigger was ground. The sear, sear pin and spring SHOULD interchange. The sear MIGHT need some minor fitting, which is done with very light file strokes. If it's too short as opposed to too long, you will need a new sear. There is a trick to fitting the sear to the trigger.

 

[W.E.G.]

Would I be correct that any K-frame hammer and trigger that are of approximately the same vintage should interchange in this revolver?

 

[scha]

I just got my Model 64-5 DAO revolver from J&G Sales (Serial BET 16XX). I removed the hammer and replaced it with one I had on hand. The hammer I put in is a case colored K frame target hammer. With only this change in hammers, the gun now works in both single and double action.

I think this 64-5 came from the S&W Factory as a DAO model as the original hammer does not appear to have been modified in any way. It also looks like a hammer change is all that is needed to convert back to single and double action.

Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[W.E.G.]

Thanks.

I also confirmed with Smith and Wesson customer service (via email) that only a hammer is needed for the 64-5.

I have one en route from a member on this board.

I'll post updates to chronicle the progress.

 

[Big Cholla]

W.E.G.: Most definitely all you need is the proper hammer to convert back to the original DA/SA trigger pulls. As stated, the single action ledge had been taken off that hammer. S&W has been so good in the production tolerances of their parts that most likely your hammer will be 'drop in'. You can put on one that is standard ear and standard grooved trigger; or one that it wide ear and standard grooved trigger; or one that is wide ear and wide grooved trigger; or one that is standard ear and standard width smooth face. Lots of options in factory hammers. ....... Big Cholla

 

[jglsprings]

Okay, help a newbie out here.....

From the original post...

What are the sizes referred to in the hammer assemblies? (.265 - .375) Realizing that OBS is obsolete.

 

[scha]

The first Item #46 is a hammer for a blue gun (BL) with the spur width of .265 inches. The middle item #46 is the same width hammer for a stainless steel gun. (SS). The third Item #46 is for a stainless steel gun with the "semi-target" spur that is .375 inches wide. The standard hammers are the .265 version. These usually came standard on fixed sight revolvers like the Model 64. The Semi Target hammer was an option for the fixed sight revolvers and was usually standard on the adjustable sight models (Models 14, 15, 19, 67, 66 etc). You could upgrade the adjustable sight guns to a full target hammer which has a spur that is .500 inches wide.

Hope this helps.

Steve

 

[jglsprings]

The first Item #46 is a hammer for a blue gun (BL) with the spur width of .265 inches. The middle item #46 is the same width hammer for a stainless steel gun. (SS). The third Item #46 is for a stainless steel gun with the "semi-target" spur that is .375 inches wide. The standard hammers are the .265 version. These usually came standard on fixed sight revolvers like the Model 64. The Semi Target hammer was an option for the fixed sight revolvers and was usually standard on the adjustable sight models (Models 14, 15, 19, 67, 66 etc). You could upgrade the adjustable sight guns to a full target hammer which has a spur that is .500 inches wide.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Thanks! I wasn't sure exactly what we were measuring there. Thank you for your time.

 

[VM]

They are not flash chromed, but there are a couple used hammers in the classified that will probably work for you

http://smith-wessonforum.com/accessories-misc-sale-trade/126579-wts-n-k-grips-k-service-hammers.html

 

[jglsprings]

Thanks for the link!

 

[W.E.G.]

As the factory-replacement-part hammer comes from the factory will be significantly TOO LONG if you get one from the factory.
It must be shortened, and a clearance angle applied to the leading edge.
If you can compare it to an existing hammer assembly, you should have very little difficulty.

The method you use to shorten the double-action sear, is up to you. I used a needle file, and without removing the sear from the hammer.
It took longer than I cared for.
By the time I was done, I wished I had knocked the pin out, and worked on the sear without it being still installed on the hammer.

Now, here is a picture indicating the single action notch.
Look where the red arrow is pointing.
Not too bad a picture eh?
If there were something there - like a NOTCH - you should be able to see it, right?

Look at the vertical greasy line.
There is a "bump" there, that constitutes the single-action notch.
See what I mean when I say messing with the SA notch is not for amateurs?

I didn't mess with the single-action notch, and I discovered that the factory-configured notch (such that it is) works just fine in single action mode. If somebody ever was to get charged-up to work on that single-action bump, they better have a Mark IV eyeball, a steadier hand than mine, and a powerful microscope.

Here is a DAO hammer assembly.
Notice the complete absence of a SA notch.

In closing, let me relate this piece of information. I was AMAZED when the folks at Smith and Wesson told me they have ZERO replacement firing pin nose rivets for sale to yahoos like me. If you ever want to replace a busted firing pin nose (A.K.A. "firing pin"), you gotta knock out the rivet on the hammer to get the busted nose out. I bet Smith and Wesson has a stash of rivets, but they must be short, 'cause they sure wouldn't sell me one. I finally found some for sale in Canada on the internet at http://www.marstar.ca/swrevolvers.htm

I ordered three.

They sent me three USED rivets.
Funny no mention of "used condition" on the web site.

If you want a SA/DA hammer for a Model 64-5, you better order one tomorrow, 'cause I'm reckoning they gonna be "short" on those little jewels right soon.

There it is. The story of converting a DAO Model 64-5 to SA/DA.

 

[W.E.G.]

Need to mention too that my first try at the conversion was a little rocky.

Got a very-good condition used K-frame hammer from a member here.
Promptly broke it.

Seems that that pressed-bushing that fits in the frame, and that guides the hammer-mounted firing pin, is something of a "fitted" part.

Once I had the used hammer installed, I would dry fire it, and the firing pin would seize in the frame-bushing. I futzed around with it until finally the nose broke off the hammer.

That was dissapointing.

My futzing, and allowing the firing pin to seize in the bushing, caused the opening in the bushing to become "egged."
As in egg-shaped.
Also raised a burr.
Hard Arkansas stone knocked-down the burr.

I got ANOTHER hammer from Smith and Wesson, and by now, with the egg-shaped bushing-hole, the new hammer worked fine after I "fitted" the sear. (The sear on the factory-furnished hammer was WAY too long - get your needle files ready.)

So, what you need to know is:
It MIGHT be a drop-in installation for you to convert a DAO Model 64, or it might be quite a bit more.

 

[Officerblue]

The first Item #46 is a hammer for a blue gun (BL) with the spur width of .265 inches. The middle item #46 is the same width hammer for a stainless steel gun. (SS). The third Item #46 is for a stainless steel gun with the "semi-target" spur that is .375 inches wide. The standard hammers are the .265 version. These usually came standard on fixed sight revolvers like the Model 64. The Semi Target hammer was an option for the fixed sight revolvers and was usually standard on the adjustable sight models (Models 14, 15, 19, 67, 66 etc). You could upgrade the adjustable sight guns to a full target hammer which has a spur that is .500 inches wide.

Hope this helps.

Steve

But could you use the target hammer .500 on a 64-6 with fixed rear sights?