Wanting to get into reloading 38 SPL.

[reddog81]

I couldn't imagine starting with a Lee Loader Kit. I think that would turn most people off fairly quickly.

Regarding the question about needing a scale - Yes, you really should have an actual scale. The scoopers may work, or maybe not... How will you ever know if your powder charges are correct or consistent if you don't have a scale. You can get a cheap Frankford Arsenal for like $25. I've used mine for 3 years now. Occasionally it starts to get erratic and then you change the batteries. Have you ever looked at a reloading manual? How many reloading manuals list powder charges in CC's? Maybe the LEE book does but that's probably the only one.

 

[Wise_A]

I couldn't imagine starting with a Lee Loader Kit. I think that would turn most people off fairly quickly.

Neither would I. The hand-held Lee loaders are great for space and portability. You could load in an apartment with no dedicated space, or you could pack your components and chrono off to the range and do all your load development right there in one trip.

For typical target handgun shooting, I consider a turret press the minimum. Single-stage presses have their uses, mostly if you're working in very small volumes and desire off-press charging and priming anyway.

Regarding the question about needing a scale - Yes, you really should have an actual scale.

Absolutely.

I would go as far as to say that you need a digital scale. I've seen a lot of accidents caused by a balance beam scale that wasn't set up right. Accidents that would have been prevented by a single pass over a digital. Balance beams give you better precision, but the simplicity of a digital makes the balance beam a good second scale.

Digitals are faster, easier to use, and take up less space on the bench. Meaning people are more like to spot-check their charges if they have one.

How are the digital calipers? A lot of people seem to use and like them for reloading. The ones I have are pretty good but they are analog. I was interested in the digital one's for ease of reading it but I think what I have now are fine.

Pretty decent. Mine have a little bit of variation at the level of .0005", just by virtue of that being the limit of what they can display.

I haven't used a real dial, so I really couldn't tell you if they're that much more convenient.

For the price of the Harbor Freight ones, you could grab one and try it, and if it's not a substantial improvement, toss it in with your chrono and use it for checking groups or looking for bullet pull or such.

 

[GA_Sheepdog]

I purchased a Frankford digital scale. So far I like it and seems to be pretty accurate, although I have not actually started weighing any powder yet.


As far as the dial calipers, I don't mind them. I'd still like to get a digital one because they are quick and easy to read.

 

[DavidWJ]

I just spent the following to get started.
Lee 50th kit = $120
Lee 3 Die kit = $32
Franklin Case Tumbler = $40
Bullets = $100/500
Powder = $25/lb (~250 rds)
Primers = $35/1000
Walnut shell media = $20/5 lb
Case Lube $20
Books and data are online (free)

 

[Wise_A]

Get a printed book. Lee's Second is very comprehensive.

Online data is nice, but it's a good idea to sit down and double-check your intended charge against print data before you load, and check it again once you're done.

It's also handy to grab your printed book and take it with you when you go out to buy powder, bullets, and whatever else. Some shops are nice and have unwrapped copies of popular loading manuals for customers to check in with. Many are not to accommodating.

 

[GA_Sheepdog]

Get a printed book. Lee's Second is very comprehensive.

Online data is nice, but it's a good idea to sit down and double-check your intended charge against print data before you load, and check it again once you're done.

It's also handy to grab your printed book and take it with you when you go out to buy powder, bullets, and whatever else. Some shops are nice and have unwrapped copies of popular loading manuals for customers to check in with. Many are not to accommodating.

I'm on chapter 4 of the Lee reloading manual and its a very good read. I also purchased a pound of CFE from Hodgdon. I was kinda disappointed they didn't have that powder on the load data. I suspect that the book was released prior to 2014 when that powder came out though.

 

[Clovishound]

There is data for it on Hogdgen's website.

Hodgdon Reloading | Home

 

[GA_Sheepdog]

Thank you man! Although it wasn't in the manual, I did see the lee load data for CFE on the lee die set I got. Without going outside in my garage and looking at it, I do believe the it says 4.4 grns of CFE for starting load. The Hodgdon site says 4.8. The numbers on the load data are off slightly. Is that enough to make any real difference?

 

[Wise_A]

Different sources will disagree. Lee is usually the most conservative. Since I'm usually not concerned with maximizing velocity, that's the max I usually go with.

They're also a little bit funny on the lower end as well. For instance, IIRC, their starting load for a 158-gr .38 Spl with Alliant Bullseye is 3.5 gr, with a max of 3.6. This is odd because 2.8 gr is a hugely popular loading.

For OAL and such (again, different sources will give different answers), when it comes to revolver cartridges, so long as you crimp into the groove, you're fine.

 

[kbm6893]

I have a Hornady digital caliper, but I don't use it for .38. I just seat to the cannelure. I do use it for the 9MM. I check the first one and then every 5 loaded after that. Once the seating die is set its set. The OAL is always going to be a hair different since not all brass is exactly the same length. Never enough to matter

 

[Thomas15]

I would go as far as to say that you need a digital scale. I've seen a lot of accidents caused by a balance beam scale that wasn't set up right. Accidents that would have been prevented by a single pass over a digital. Balance beams give you better precision, but the simplicity of a digital makes the balance beam a good second scale.

Digitals are faster, easier to use, and take up less space on the bench. Meaning people are more like to spot-check their charges if they have one.

Cool story. A couple of questions:

How does a mechanical device cause accidents? Could you give us a rough estimate on the number of accidents you have seen caused by beam type powder scales? Have you seen any stray accidents caused by a digital?

If a balance beam scale gives better precision wouldn't that be the best choice?

I have read on some of the various forum boards where some users of digital measuring scales do not calibrate every time they use them. Good, bad or just boys being boys?

I personally have two digital scales and one balance beam scale. I use the balance beam 98% of the time. Is there something wrong with me?

If I want to use one of my digital scales usually I need to let it warm up for at least 10 minutes. If I don't I get drift. This doesn't seem to be a problem with a balance beam scale. Why then is the digital more convenient that the balance beam?

 

[Wise_A]

How does a mechanical device cause accidents? Could you give us a rough estimate on the number of accidents you have seen caused by beam type powder scales? Have you seen any stray accidents caused by a digital?

Pretty easy. There was a pretty good example right on this forum.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139137082-post1.html

In this instance, the pistol held despite having a .44 Magnum's charge inside of a .45 ACP.

These sorts of accidents boil down to one of two things: either the scale wasn't adjusted properly and the operator wasn't aware of it, or the scale was broken and the operator wasn't aware of it.

If a balance beam scale gives better precision wouldn't that be the best choice?

The lack of precision from a digital comes from the nature of it being digital.

If I weigh a charges that average something like 4.45 grains, the digital will sometimes display 4.5, and sometimes 4.4. That's about the limit of what they can display (until you get into more expensive models). They don't give the operator any kind of feedback as to whether or not the charge is varying .1 grains, or whether or not it's rounding.

And to be fair, for the vast majority of reloaders, it simply doesn't matter. If you're not sorting out bullets with imperfections, then weighing and sorting the 40% that remain, .1-grain variations don't matter a whole lot.

A balance beam not only reads out that far, it gives you some idea of how much the charges are actually varying, because the number of readings it can "display" is infinite.

I have read on some of the various forum boards where some users of digital measuring scales do not calibrate every time they use them. Good, bad or just boys being boys?

I routinely check the calibration on mine. I've been using it for more than a year now, and I've never had the calibration weight come up as anything other than exactly 100.00 grams. If I can't remember the last time I checked it, I go ahead and check it. But I certainly don't check it every time, I just take care of it. No tossing it around, no dropping stuff on the pad, and no having it out and open on the bench when I'm pouring powder!

I personally have two digital scales and one balance beam scale. I use the balance beam 98% of the time. Is there something wrong with me?

What you do in the privacy of your own basement or garage is between you and your God.

If I want to use one of my digital scales usually I need to let it warm up for at least 10 minutes. If I don't I get drift. This doesn't seem to be a problem with a balance beam scale. Why then is the digital more convenient that the balance beam?

I don't get any drift with mine. What I do get is drift off my first dozen or so charges dropped. So I usually cycle the powder drop through that many charges, and then begin weighing them. If I need to adjust, I repeat the process.

 

[medic15al]

If it's not Dillion it is not a reloader.
Friends don't let friends buy Lee.

Very ignorant statement.

 

[Thomas15]

Wise A I was under the impression that you have personally seen many accidents that were caused by beam scales.

 

[Wise_A]

How many have you seen that were caused by--

--using the wrong powder?
--double-charging with a loading block?
--squibbing from a bridged charge?
--squibbing from a too-light charge of a slow powder?

None, right? Because you still have ten fingers and two eyes.

And yet you know those things happen, because there's a sufficient body of evidence you've access to, and because the mechanics of how these things happen are clear and logical and easily-understood.

Just as it's pretty clear and easy to understand how there are actually a couple different ways to mis-measure or mis-read a balance beam scale.

Now, are balance beam scales bad? Nope. But for those reasons, plus the smaller size, speed, and ease-of-use a good digital offers, I suggest new reloaders and handloaders start off with a digital. All the better to encourage frequent weighing and checking.

Keep tugging, I'm sure those goalposts will move eventually.

 

[Thomas15]

Keep tugging, I'm sure those goalposts will move eventually.

May I ask which manufacturer of digital powder scales offers a guarantee that if you use their scale you will never have a problem (however one defines a problem) with your handloads? Which scale offered to the handloading public is guaranteed to never malfunction or give an inaccurate reading? Which digital scales offers relief to the handloader who wants to get rid of the responsibility of making sure the equipment is being used properly? Which digital scale will alert the operator that the charge they are using is excessive or inappropriate for the application?

 

[Wise_A]

May I ask which manufacturer of digital powder scales offers a guarantee that if you use their scale you will never have a problem (however one defines a problem) with your handloads? Which scale offered to the handloading public is guaranteed to never malfunction or give an inaccurate reading? Which digital scales offers relief to the handloader who wants to get rid of the responsibility of making sure the equipment is being used properly? Which digital scale will alert the operator that the charge they are using is excessive or inappropriate for the application?

May I ask which manufacturer of any reloading equipment offers such a guarantee?

Pull harder! You've almost got it with the strawman argument!

 

[rwsmith]

Midway has a list.....

I'll admit when I first seen this I had no idea of what you were taking about. A quick search on MidwayUSA gave better idea. Other then the actually powder, shells, and bullets, would this be all I needed other then maybe a loading book to get started?

Look up Midway starting reloaders list or something like that. It's very complete. EVERYTHING you want need right away, but will want to get it sooner or later. i.e. A caliper isn't totally necessary for .38 as Overall length isn't anywhere near as critical as something like a 9mm. Just push the bullet in to the cannelure on the bullet or until it 'looks good'.

You won't need to trim cases, the mouths of .38 cases usually splits before it grows too long.

If you prime your cases on the press you won't need a special priming tool.

 

[Qc Pistolero]

I started with one of those in the mid '70s.Loads good ammo and makes you understand fully what and why you are doing every step.But painfully slow..If you are to shoot over 1000rds/year,I'd say you'd be better off buying a single stage press with the appropriate dies and a good powder measure(I personnaly prefer mechanical,not digital but you might prefer blondes while I prefer dark hair).

As for caliber,after you got the brass,the .38Spl doesn't cost anymore than the 9mm,is less peaky and more accurate.Guess you now know what kind of wood I burn to keep me warm!
Qc

 

[aftra]

Yeah I hear ya. I didn't fully realize that box of 38 spl fmj is about $20. It would've been nice if it was $5 or $10 like other ammos. but it's still $20 a box. Not really worth reloading to save maybe $10 (assuming you can save 50%).