Weak night sights on 60 Pro

[at_liberty]

I would welcome some help thinking this through. I would like to get stronger, easier to see night sights on my 60 Pro. I have seen references to this as a recognized problem with this model. Should I expect S&W to actually do something about it, or do I just need advice on which sights to use as an upgrade?

Yes, I can call S&W, who may just stay on script, not actually knowing much about it, and want me to ship the gun to them; but I wonder if others already have the experience to share with this exact problem.

 

[riverrat38]

Tritium has a 12 year half life, so the sights are not permanent.
They could be old stock, but mine say 14 on them, which might be the year of build. In my case, that is when the gun was made.
I have found that my sights are quite bright when my eyes are fully night adapted. I can actually see a reflection of the rear sights on the stainless frame over the hammer area. My gun is a M640 Pro, with front and rear night sights. I wouldn't want them any brighter when my eyes are dark adapted. If I am in a lighted room, and take the gun into a dark closet, I can't see the sights very well, since my eyes are not dark adapted at that time.


Best,
Rick

 

[Bastogne71]

Riverrat38,

I have a model 60 pro and 640 pro. There is a huge difference in the two sights. At best, the 60 pro is dim even when I'm fully night vision adjusted. Very disappointing.

At_liberty,

Sorry but I don't have an answer. If you find a solution, please post it for me.

 

[HarrishMasher]

That is the nature of the sight. It sucks. It is a poor design. My 586 L Comp PC has the same bad sight set up. What do you expect S&W to do? They are not going to do anything. You will need to install aftermarket sights to correct the problem.

 

[at_liberty]

That is the nature of the sight. It sucks. It is a poor design. My 586 L Comp PC has the same bad sight set up. What do you expect S&W to do? They are not going to do anything. You will need to install aftermarket sights to correct the problem.

Have you had any actual exchange with S&W CS about it? I was hoping someone would offer more than ragging on S&W. I will call them this coming week, but I am not sending in the gun without a "yes, we know about that and can fix it" response.

 

[kthom]

S&W can fix the dim sights ... by replacing them with new ones. But if your night sights are old enough to have reached the known and expected half life span of any tritium sight, I doubt seriously if they are going to do this gratis. Anytime a night sight is installed, the clock is ticking from the date of that sight's manufacture. When it goes dim, it is not a problem with the sight ... it is the natural demise of any night sight. We should know this when we buy and/or install them. A brand new gun with dim sights would be an issue worthy of discussing with the manufacturer. It won't cost much to call them and see what they say. It depends on how old the sights (and the gun) are. Just know that the tritium sights will begin to dim at the beginning and the brightness will diminish as time goes by. That's not a manufacturer defect! It's the nature of the product.

 

[ridgewalker]

I agree with you Kthom. However, that is not the issue we are experiencing with our 60 Pro's. Mine is only 2 years old and was dim when new. Possibly S&W used old Tritium vials but I tend to think it is a design flaw since the Dot is so small.
I am looking forward to the OP's follow-up.

 

[kthom]

Based on what you say, then I think it's time to see what S&W has to say!

 

[HarrishMasher]

Have you had any actual exchange with S&W CS about it? I was hoping someone would offer more than ragging on S&W. I will call them this coming week, but I am not sending in the gun without a "yes, we know about that and can fix it" response.

Everyone seems to be missing the point here. That is the nature of the sight on the 60 Pro. The 586 L Comp has the same front sight and the same problem. It is a tiny vial and it is very dim and useless. It is well known among 60 Pro and 586 L Comp owners that this is the nature of this sight and there is not much you can do about it but get different sights. S&W can certainly replace it. But you will have the exact same problem.

And you are misunderstanding me, I am not bashing S&W either. It is just a poor sight design, and a brand new one is not going to be the slightest bit better.

I forget the company and the guys name who does it, but he has a special procedure where he charges $150 and relamps the front sight on the 60 Pro & 586 L Comp. He also puts a white outline around it to make it like an XS big dot front sight. His name is actually Dave, but I cannot remember the name of the company. Maybe someone will chime in. But the problem is that well known that someone came up with a solution for it. The sight you have is doing exactly what it is capable of doing. It is just not very good.

Ok I just found his info. It is DL Sports, call or email and ask about his procedure for the Model 60 front sight:

http://www.dlsports.com/

And here is his email:
[email protected]

This is why my 586 L Comp wears a $28 SDM Fiber Optic front sight. I did not want spend the $150 to have Dave relamp the factory night sight with the dim tiny tritium vial. I have the original sight if I someday decide to send it to Dave to do his vial replacement. I see no point in sending it to S&W to put the same tiny dim vial in the front sight blade. Though I am sure they will if I send it in, it just won't make any difference.

As you can see My L Comp had the exact same front sight you have on your 60 Pro:

It is just a poorly designed sight, offering very little illumination because the vial is so tiny. The flaw is inherent in the design.

 

[ridgewalker]

The 60 Pro is a range toy for me. The niche it fills is when I want to get the most accuracy I can from a J frame at 25 yards. But in reality, the J frame which has given me the most accuracy at 25 yds is a 649 with a 2 1/8 inch barrel.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to fix the sight problem on my 60 Pro. $150 sounds like a lot of money to pay some guy named Dave to fix it. If anyone has any suggestions on replacement sights which fit the 60 Pro, it would be appreciated.

edited to add: I just saw your additional info for DL Sports. Have you had the front sight of your 586 L Comp fixed by them? If so do you find it to be an improvement? Can you post a picture? Thanks.

Ok you added a pic and explanation about the Fiber Optic. Thanks.

 

[HarrishMasher]

The 60 Pro is a range toy for me. The niche it fills is when I want to get the most accuracy I can from a J frame at 25 yards. But in reality, the J frame which has given me the most accuracy at 25 yds is a 649 with a 2 1/8 inch barrel.

That's not to say I wouldn't like to fix the sight problem on my 60 Pro. $150 sounds like a lot of money to pay some guy named Dave to fix it. If anyone has any suggestions on replacement sights which fit the 60 Pro, it would be appreciated.

edited to add: I just saw your additional info for DL Sports. Have you had the front sight of your 586 L Comp fixed by them? If so do you find it to be an improvement? Can you post a picture? Thanks.

Ok you added a pic and explanation about the Fiber Optic. Thanks.

No I haven't sent it in yet, and I am not sure if I will. I have read of a few folks on this forum that have done it and they were very happy with the outcome.

I love the fiber optic sight I have on it now. I shoot the gun so much better with this sight. The original sight was basically a black blade which offered zero contrast on dark targets and I couldn't aim at all on dark targets. With the fiber optic they are typical groups I get at 25 feet double action. I have since adjusted the sight

 

[MarkAlt]

Same problem with my model 60 Pro, manufactured and purchased new mid-2014.

As the former and current owner of several pistols with trijicons, I know what to expect. Unless these shipped with a dummy insert, there is definitely a problem. Mine is completely dark. Contrast that to my 2006 M&P 40 that is still luminous at night.

 

[ridgewalker]

Here is the link to the specific page on D&L Sports for their J frame sights.
D&L J Frame S&W Sights
It looks like fine work. Reminds me of the Cylinder and Slide sights on my NightGuard. Here is the link for C&S S&W sights.
Smith and Wesson Sights

Those SDM Fiber Optic sights seem to work well.
Are these the ones?
Super Sights

Edited to add:
OK, I finally got the 60 Pro out of the safe and into a totally dark room. The tiny dot in the front sight does indeed glow. However, without rear night sights, it only provides me a general direction which I am pointing the gun. If I intended to use this gun for a home defense gun, I would send it to D&L Sports and get the front and rear night sight package.
Since I have always used this gun in the daylight at the range, I could not see the glowing tiny tritium dot. My recommendation to S&W is to put a white circle around the Trit dot, like on a M&P 340.