Weird electrical issue

[LVSteve]

Many of the lights in this home are on dimmer switches of various vintages/makes. Some have LED bulbs fitted, while others are still using steam filaments. Since the summer we have had odd instances where the dimmers don't seem to work correctly. This morning, the filament bulbs on a newer dimmer were flickering badly at any level less than flat out. Also, at the minimum slider setting, the illumination level was brighter than how I had set it. Upstairs a few minutes later I was unable to prevent a bit of flicker in a room with an older dimmer regardless of setting.

Tonight, everything is working as it should. What the heck is going on? Interference on the power from some device a neighbor is running? 30 year street or house connections crapping out?

Any ideas?

 

[lihpster]

I seem to remember other instances of electrical gremlins in your house. You sure they didn't build it on a Native American graveyard?

 

[olfart]

Using LEDs with dimmers may be a problem if the LEDs are not specified for use with dimmers.

 

[LVSteve]

Using LEDs with dimmers may be a problem if the LEDs are not specified for use with dimmers.

Nope, the LEDs are dimmer rated, and I was seeing the flickering on a light with filament bulbs.

 

[LVSteve]

I seem to remember other instances of electrical gremlins in your house. You sure they didn't build it on a Native American graveyard?

I had a dose of that at one work location here out in the desert. My other electrical funnies turned out to be caused by two worn out GFCB outlets and some loose wires on one light switch. One set of LED bulbs also seemed to be extremely sensitive to any load changes in the home when connected to a dimmer. This was a dimmable type with adjustable color temperature. Yeah, they would di malright, every time the garage lights were activated.

I have also noted that the streetlight out front died again not two years after it was replaced. It now flickers on and off at odd intervals. At its base is a vault belonging to the power company that likely contains the connections to my house and one next door neighbor. This development was thrown up 30 years ago, so you have to wonder about the condition of the wiring and whatever that lives in that vault.

 

[Krogen]

Not only do the LED lights need to be dimmable, but your dimmers need to be LED compatible. On top of that if you have different LEDs on one circuit they may argue with each other; as in incompatible.

 

[DWalt]

Only peripherally related, I just installed a new garage door opener. Instructions said that using LED bulbs in the unit can render the wireless remotes inoperable. So I put filament bulbs in it. I also have a hanging overhead dining room light fixture controlled by a dimmer switch. It will not work with dimmable LED bulbs unless the dimmer is turned all the way up. I replaced the dimmer with a plain on-off switch, that works OK. I was not aware that dimmable LED bulbs need special dimmers.

 

[LVSteve]

Not only do the LED lights need to be dimmable, but your dimmers need to be LED compatible. On top of that if you have different LEDs on one circuit they may argue with each other; as in incompatible.

I only have dimmable LEDs on the circuits with the proper LED compatible dimmers. Those dimmers are also good to go with filament bulbs to, or at least they say so on the box.

As for LED bulbs from different manufacturers that won't play nice, BT;DT.

 

[LVSteve]

Only peripherally related, I just installed a new garage door opener. Instructions said that using LED bulbs in the unit can render the wireless remotes inoperable. So I put in filament bulbs in it.

There are particular LED bulbs for use with garage door openers that have better shielding than standard LED bulbs. I bought some recently. In Home Depot they were with the garage door openers. I haven't had any issues with these bulbs interfering with the RF receiver of the opener. The better bulbs do cost a chunk more, though.

 

[TX-Dennis]

No ideas on the flickering unless maybe your dimmers are going bad. It would be strange that they all go bad at once, though. Could be power surges from a bad transformer, I guess. I would ask the power company to check it out.

Never knew there were issues with garage door openers and LED lamps. I have been using cheap store brand LEDs in my garage opener for years with no issues. Remotes work properly and consistently.

 

[Narragansett]

With a multimeter ( not a voltage tester ) read your incoming voltage at your panelboard. You are looking for an applied under voltage condition below what the regulated standard should be

 

[Baxter6551]

LV I think you should have an electrician check your incoming power as suggested by Narraganset. Sounds like something isn’t right. I don’t have any dimmer switches so can’t speak to that.
I put in a new pole light out in front of sidewalk a few years ago and then added a timer to it. Honeywell. It won’t work with LED bulbs with the timer but did before. I would much prefer LEDs, it stays on from 5pm to 6:30 am. No issues with new garage door opener because I changed bulb outlet to a plug and plugged in an LED shop light.

 

[45Smashemflat]

You’ll need to check it when the flickering is happening. (If you have a more fancy multi-meter, you might be able to set it to track max and min values while you have it connected.). You can start with checking at the panel, or at the dimmer incoming. Which ever you start with, if it checks out, then move to the other.

You might also check the wiring at the dimmer and ensure everything is snug. Ditto at the panel for that circuit. I’ve seen a loose neutral do this. Note, if the circuit is not dedicated to that light dimmer, then you should check each box it runs through for loose connections. You should be suspect of any outlet or light switch that uses those “stab” connections, btw.

 

[Swiftflyer]

We had that very issue a few weeks ago and it turned out to be a circuit breaker going bad. The CB was sparking but not tripping.

 

[bamashooter]

Nope, the LEDs are dimmer rated, and I was seeing the flickering on a light with filament bulbs.

But are the dimmers rated for led compatibility?

 

[dockmurgw]

Are they stamped made in china?

 

[greenwellg]

Multiple identical symptoms almost always point to a source issue.

 

[greenwellg]

Probably a failing connection. Probably exterior where temp ranges are more extreme. Is your fuse panel in the garage? Flip the breakers numerous times if the box is cold. Properly functioning circuits point to fuse box where input power branches to individual circuits.

 

[olfart]

Another thing to check might be your ground connection at the meter pole.

 

[mtgianni]

If you can see your transformer overhead, see if any of your neighbors are having similar issues. If so, ask the utility to please put a chart on the transformer to track voltage variations. If not, have an electrician check the panel.

 

[TX-Dennis]

Keep in mind that intermittent flickering and/or incorrect brightness levels are classic symptoms of a failing dimmer switch, so if it were me I would try replacing one of the offending switches and see if it fixes the issue. They're not that expensive, and are pretty straightforward to replace

 

[Alton]

IS your service properly grounded? A friend had this issue where the service was grounded but 200' + away from his home. Security company grounded their panel to a water pipe, so not only was he getting flickering lights but shocked while taking showers. I drove an additional ground rod at his house panel. I need to add at his first home he had the same issue, found out installing electricians never installed a ground rod at the service.

 

[Walkin Horse]

If it was incoming power,wouldn’t the whole house flicker at the same time. If it was the individual breaker or connection at the bus bar wouldn’t everything on that circuit flicker?

 

[Jon651]

Many of the lights in this home are on dimmer switches of various vintages/makes. Some have LED bulbs fitted, while others are still using steam filaments. Since the summer we have had odd instances where the dimmers don't seem to work correctly. This morning, the filament bulbs on a newer dimmer were flickering badly at any level less than flat out. Also, at the minimum slider setting, the illumination level was brighter than how I had set it. Upstairs a few minutes later I was unable to prevent a bit of flicker in a room with an older dimmer regardless of setting.

Tonight, everything is working as it should. What the heck is going on? Interference on the power from some device a neighbor is running? 30 year street or house connections crapping out?

Any ideas?

Older dimmers like you have are basically slide-wire resistors, which can wear out and/or get dirty over the years. Newer units are solid state (the digital push-button type) and don't have the same issues - although they occasionally do have other issues since they are all-electronic.

A difference is brightness can also be related to the transformer voltage feeding your house, the age of the electrical lines and connections inside your home, a failing circuit breaker, or even if any new houses/businesses were built close by and their service loads added to your local branch. If you have a multimeter (even a $10 one from Harbor Freight) you can check the voltage levels in various circuits from the outlets in your home. A 1-2 volt variance is not an issue between outlets, but if you get a 10-20 volt dip below average in any circuit then that would be more problematic.

Note - If you have LED lights and are getting the occasional flicker, that could also be from a data signal being sent along your power lines. That's how the new "smart" electrical meters connect to the power company. I use my home's electrical lines to connect my printer to my router and every time I print something my LED desk light will flicker slightly but noticeably.

 

[JeffD607]

I just replaced a flickering LED bulb. They will "flicker" when the driver in the bulb goes bad. New bulb an the problem was fixed.

 

[BB4XL]

Many of the lights in this home are on dimmer switches of various vintages/makes. Some have LED bulbs fitted, while others are still using steam filaments. Since the summer we have had odd instances where the dimmers don't seem to work correctly. This morning, the filament bulbs on a newer dimmer were flickering badly at any level less than flat out. Also, at the minimum slider setting, the illumination level was brighter than how I had set it. Upstairs a few minutes later I was unable to prevent a bit of flicker in a room with an older dimmer regardless of setting.

Tonight, everything is working as it should. What the heck is going on? Interference on the power from some device a neighbor is running? 30 year street or house connections crapping out?

Any ideas?

Check your Neutral connections in your panel. Also have the power company check your feed.

 

[Krogen]

Older dimmers like you have are basically slide-wire resistors, which can wear out and/or get dirty over the years. Newer units are solid state (the digital push-button type) and don't have the same issues - although they occasionally do have other issues since they are all-electronic.

No! Absolutely untrue. If that were the case, the power dissipation in the "dimmer" would be huge. They do have a potentiometer or "slide-wire resistor" as you say to control the regulating circuit. Dimmers have always used phase control circuits with a pair of SCRs or a single Triac. They chop the power so its average value can be adjusted and dim the lights. Chopping the power is why they can mess up radio reception, and why LED lights might have a hard time with older dimmers. Unlike filament bulbs, LEDs need a switching regulator inside. And that is why LEDs of different manufacturers might not like each other.

 

[LVSteve]

No! Absolutely untrue. If that were the case, the power dissipation in the "dimmer" would be huge. They do have a potentiometer or "slide-wire resistor" as you say to control the regulating circuit. Dimmers have always used phase control circuits with a pair of SCRs or a single Triac. They chop the power so its average value can be adjusted and dim the lights. Chopping the power is why they can mess up radio reception, and why LED lights might have a hard time with older dimmers. Unlike filament bulbs, LEDs need a switching regulator inside. And that is why LEDs of different manufacturers might not like each other.

This. It can be fun putting different wattage or brand in the same multiple fitting. With one of the old (probably not LED compatible) dimmers, it is possible to induce a condition where the bulbs flash sequentially, probably a resonance effect between the dimmer control signal variations and the switching regulator frequency.

 

[LVSteve]

Check your Neutral connections in your panel. Also have the power company check your feed.

I wondered about that.

For full disclosure, everything is working fine this morning. Electrical faults are bad enough on a good day. Intermittent electrical faults will drive you to throw things.

 

[jeffrefrig]

Like Narrangasett said earlier, it sounds like a brown out condition, low voltage. A 30 year old home is like new and the code regulations should be up to date as far as the transformer and conductors to your home service panel are sized right, etc. Someone mentioned the LED lights will flicker when they are going bad. This had me pulling my hair out for a week, changing a receptacle, a lamp socket, etc. It was the bulb! I suppose an electrician could attach a chart recorder to your incoming service, depending how much you're willing to pay. Do your neighbors have any similar issues?
Good luck. I'm a little curious now. If your problem is fixed could you let us know what it was?