Revisiting one of several that I recorded. See photo pointing at area where Property Stamp is normally found now has deep grind cavity. Also you will notice that it was clearly re-nickeled at some point "after"the marking was removed. No way to prove when this was done but that grind " Cavity" certainly looks "very old" to me.
WellsFargo was an enormous company that covered multiple countries by 1890. These Schofields would have been issued everywhere they were needed. Assuming that the markings found were in many cases removed by order of the company prior to being sold and replaced with newer weapons? There would likely be no uniformity to the removal since the coverage area was World wide! Many would have escaped the grind off order which is exactly what we are seeing. More data collecting is needed. But honestly, even today there is no uniformity to operations from one office to the next. There are NO absolutes in this study! But enough data has been gathered to support that at least " Some" of the Property Stamps were purposely removed after end of use.
** I do plan on pursuing information from many Wells Fargo Historical offices throughout the country but the offices are closed now so the research is at a stand still until this virus issue blows over.
Murph
Sorry, Murph ... I cannot make any assessment based solely on this one photo which is very confusing, almost as it is intended to be confusing. Please (again) reference "where" you acquired this photo. Always disclose references or whatever you post has not credibility. Even after a reference is noted, sometimes it is still not granted a carte blanche that everyone should accept it as "gospel".
What is this ? The dark and light finish colors or shading ... it is on the gun or a horrible photographs. Post some additional, overall, photos of this one.
From what " I " can grasp from this photo, I would have to rate this entire specimen ... if it truly exists ... as non-credible, based on the photo (on its face) and the nondisclosure of origin of photo.
However, I am very curious to view the overall photos of this gun. That routed out area (where the WF Ex and Co + SN should be ... why is it re-stamped above ? Is there another matching routed area on the other side of the gun, e.g. for some sort of experimental accessory rail ? Post overall photos of this gun (both sides) butt where numbers are, and serial numbers of latch and barrel.
All the number may match but I'd be willing to wager there is much more to this story than this one photo is suggested to reveal (your hypotheses that it is a Express company removal of stamping) . it could very likely also be a "put together" from scrap parts.
It could also be a copy, counterfeit or Spanish (or any other Country) lower grade copy ... and possibly NOT an original S&W.
Murph, I'll ride along with the thread for awhile, solely in an attempt to add logic and sanity, but ONLY if you promise to accredit your posts, quotes and photos with legitimate reference of where you found these exemplars,. e.g. in what book, publication, magazine article, a website, etc. but ONLY if you state the specific and exact reference.
AND ... that we address one topic at a time without deviating. HERE and NOW we are are discussing the Express company removal of Property Stamps, to which the underlying factor is ... that by this virtue you stated the Wells Fargo Schofields were not rare (in your Final Comments post) you wrote >>>>>
MURPH QUOTE START: When I look at all my research notes and talley the numbers? I have almost 100 Schofields/American Express examples documented without much effort.
However, the known contracts of 1700 and 2000 guns of the 1890's? I have less than 30 documented of each known and proven contract!
That alone should tell us something about how many Early Schofields were Wells Fargo guns and American Express guns.
Several Thousand!!!! They are definitely NOT Rare! but very historic.
Murph QUOTE END.
Many times I would take the word of another "member" of the S&WCA as having to once owned, or had personally examined (were and when). e.g. ANYTHING Ed Cornett or Col. Pate would state ... I would accept without question. Col Pate and Ed Cornett have invested over 60 years each in the quest to provide factual data. Col Pate & ed "ARE", in fact, the 2 oldest and most experienced, well read, research historians who have invested many decades of time working to find and provide sincere, in-depth, research and records keeping.
Did you know that sometime in the 1950s (IIRC) ... long before Roy or S&W began providing historical records upon request, Col Charles Pate spent countless hours, months, years int he library of congress (and other sources) to provide the serial numbers of the 1000 U.S. Cavalry contract American 1st revolvers ? Now THAT is dedication. Remember at that time there was NO electronic filing system nor computers. I cannot adequately imagine how much time he spent going through boxes upon boxes of old documents, handling these delicate old paper items, one page at a time.
Before he found the U.S. Govt order and itemized shipping and / or acceptance documents (or whatever it was that he actually found) ... nobody knew for sure the serial numbers of all the 1000 U.S. Americans. He also found which ones were supplied in blue and which in nickel. Taken from old hand-written documents, ther are a few entries that seem to be duplicate serial numbers but more likely the hand written numerical characters were not legible, thus, the best interpretation of those characters were posted with footnotes.
Then, Colt had a fire back in the 1860s (IIRC) where almost all the records were destroyed. All of the data that Colt resports toay on guns prior to that fire are taken from documents that were hand written copies (and sometimes copies of the copies) of the what was legible and barely legible from the damaged and destroyed records.
If not for Roy buying the records (so motivated was Roy the only way he could get his hands on the records was to BUY the old S&W building for a day or two) we'd have NO records of the older stuff. As it was not ALL of the records. By some documents that pop up now and by Roy's own admission he acquired all of what the could find but was not the entire collection of old documents stored in the old building.
I also have reference that a number of boxes of S&W records were donated to a Library or Museum or College ( I can't recall just now but have that data notated somewhere in my servers).
Sal Raimondi, Sr.,
